It seems that all of the big all-motor setups arnt running near as much HP but are running really low quarters. Right now Im kinda undecided, until the last couple of days I was like turbo, turbo, turbo, nothing but turbo. Like 2 days ago I kinda leanded NA for one reason or another, for the most because of money.

I know I can buy a basic turbo setup for next to nothing, but the thing is, I have a really hard time doing anything half assed. I feel like if I go turbo I have to build my motor to all insanity, to hadle extrem amounts of boost. How I want to build my motor, IT IS NOT CHEEP!

Anyways, the other day I was thinking that I could have a moster all-motor of the same price as building the turbo motor minus the price of the turbo, so about $3500 cheeper.

I know I couldn't make near as much power NA over FI, but I was always under the impression that they were 2 different types of power, and that NA needs alot less power to push it as hard as a turbo car with alot more power.

Does this make since to anyone, I can hardley understand it my self, so maybe you guys can help me sort it out.

 

see my sig ? stock motor, stock internals...

the only thing that you might have to worry about is your clutch..don;t boost more than 7-8psi, you'll be fine for along time..

MArkC ran his kit on stock motors 7.5psi for nearly 3 years now..

 

torque would be higher and more linear (once in boost) with a turbo. That's the main difference. The reason why n/a cars run fast times with low hp output is weight. You couldn't use a n/a prepped chassis in a f/i class b/c the weight would be too low, you wouldn't pass tech.

 

Depending on the size of the turbo and motor it all depends. You can setup a turbo engine to produce loads more torque than a similar displacement NA motor at say around 2000-3000rpm. In equal weighted cars with the same gear ratios, I think the turbo setup would win even with the same peak HP.

 

I decided on a turbo for a few reasons.

1. I get sick of having to rev so damn high to go fast. I love the revs I can do, but some low end punch would be nice. 9000rpms on a b18 with its long stroke scares me. My b16 would like 9000 rpms much more, but net less power.

2. Spend alot of money to go allmotor, and push maybe 210+whp(that is with me swapping to a b18c block. On a streetable car(by that I mean no weight reductions) that won't really be very fast....lack of torque.

3. Boost gives you torque. Plus, once my internals get built, I turn up boost, add more fuel, get the hondata tuned, and I am running 12's. Full interior thank you.

Oh, I would have to say 200whp FI would be better then 200 NA whp.

You have a b18b right? Hmmm what was that turbo setup I saw with stock internals? 9psi on Ls, 213whp, 197 ft-lbs?

All motor LS? You maybe get 200whp, with what? 140ft-lbs? And then of course you are pretty much maxed out. Sleeve the turbo motor, rods, pistons, get hondata + injectors and the sky is the limit.

And let us not forget...ALL those WONDERFUL turbo sounds!!

 

200 peak hp is 200 peak hp, no matter how you get it. The thing that's important is what the rest of the curve looks like. A forced induction engine will usually have a lot more power throughout the rest of the powerband. A good NA engine makes up for the lack of torque with gearing. Two different approaches.

 

You guys ar great, I stray a little, and you set me right back on the right path.

I think I'll just go with the MaxRev "kit", Hondata 2b, and some 550s(I know a little over kill for a stock motor, but I don't want to have to buy bigger when I start boosting more).

 

word. I cant wait until my max rev gets here!

 

I agree with daemione here. A 200 whp NA Honda compared to a 200whp turbo honda are likely two completely different setup scenerios.

since turbos pop out a lot more torque, this hypothetical turbo car would have to make its peak torque (and hp, for what its worth) much lower than the lower torquey NA car. The NA car is likey a high winding vtec car(ex. a gsr with all the bolt ons, and cams, cam gears, etc, (or a type R if necessary)) that can "naturally" takes advantage of gearing to make up for its low tork, making it a fasterish car. Thanks to the high powerband

The turbo car here would more likely be a lower revving non vtec with the taller gears (ex. an b18 integra with the turbo and the necessary boltons).

I dont' know if the gsr (or type r) would be as fast as the turbo here, but it may be close; weight could make the difference.

Hp, to me, is a very deceiving figure (peak or otherwise). The torque curve, and especially where and what it peaks at say everything about performance potential. The rest is up to weight, gearing and the driver.

d

 

I'm going with eclipse 450's. Cheap and effective. All I need to get is some resistors to make them work a honda.

 

I was just thinking this same argument... I want a fast street car, but also something that will do well on a road course.

I hear that generally NA cars are better for road tracks because turbo cars can burn up from being on boost too long. Here's my question:

Can you reduce the level of boost and use it on a track?

If you think about it, a NA car raises compression. A turbo also raises compression (by a different means, but still does it). Provided you can keep the air cool enough to prevent detonation, shouldn't the end result be pretty much similar? Of course you WILL have different power curves as has already been pointed out, but the curve of a turbo might not really be that bad for a track.

Just some thoughts, I would appreciate your oppinions!

 

i think 550's are a little too extreme for a stock motor. i was in the same position. didn't want to spend more money for larger injectors if i decided to do a rebuild in the future (which i'm doing now). but, with the 550's i was told that tuning with the hondata will be very difficult, it will idle like sh*t, and might eventually wash your piston rings out.

so, all in all, get a set of 440's and if you do decide to rebuild, just swallow it and shell out the extra money for it for that extra sense of security with your stock motor.


[Modified by boostedeg6, 10:47 AM 1/16/2002]


[Modified by boostedeg6, 10:48 AM 1/16/2002]

 

210whp is a lot, until you've driven in a car with that and until you get your car with less than 10psi to run 12.99 on street tires, please hold off putting down NA setups!

 

Let's look at streetablity here. If you have a built to hell NA setup, and push 250 to the wheels, how streetable will it be? How long will it last? You do that on a turbo car easily, and can get much more for track use. Then you can turn the boost down and drive easily on the street without as much wear and tear.

 

Not putting down NA setups. I just think for a street driven, daily driver, FI is better. NA is damn nice, and 210 whp is alot... But, turbo power will be much more fullfilling on the street. More TQ at low rpms = more fun. No hp at high rpm sucks though. That is why turbo honda is nice. Good low end(for a honda), and you still get killer high rpm pull(with properly sized turbo).

 

Come on now...do it for the BOV!! That has to be one of the sweetest sounds ever...HKS SS = ch chhhhhh!!

 

u should do some research on the old honda formula cars that ran really small displacement engines bustin out 60psi and then look at the reactions from the drivers after they banned the turbos from the track. im not knockin FI but the drivers said that they liked the NA motor way better. i forget the specifics about the whole thing. im stickin to NA in my hatch, but im goin FI (winter 02) in the coupe. hopefully ill learn a bit more after this whole experience.