Is there any major differences between these years? And is there any known problems or preferred year for purchasing? Wanting to get one but have read some little problems with certain years. Main reason for the Si is 5 seater and more rear passenger room. Type-S is heated side mirrors and timing chain. I've heard same platform and suspension. Both did .84g's in the lateral skidpad per Car & Driver.


Modified by Honyota at 12:03 AM 1/26/2005

 

04 has 5 lug, different headlight, different taillight, sideskirts, different rims, and i think is a little lower.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honyota &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Main reason for the Si is 5 seater and more rear passenger room. Type-S is heated side mirrors and timing chain.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Both EP3's and DC5's have timing chains.

 

For some reason the dealership told me that the Si's had timing belts not chains. Any preference with the years? Car report had a table that said the 2003 Type-S and up are slightly better. 2002 had some transmission issues and slightly weaker brake system. No reports were made for the Si's as far as year comparison. Can anyone vouch for this?

 

So no differences in regards to build quality?

 

No, just get the younger model.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honyota &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Car report had a table that said the 2003 Type-S and up are slightly better. 2002 had some transmission issues and slightly weaker brake system. No reports were made for the Si's as far as year comparison. Can anyone vouch for this?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Around 2002 1/2 there was a change to the EP3 USDM Si's strut size. They switched to the larger diameter CTR strut size.

If you are going to be putting a Mugen SS or Omnipower on your car, this would be irrelevant, of course, and other than that slight change I am not aware of any difference between the 2002 and 2003 USDM models.

As others have said, there are myriad small changes to the 2004 and 2005 USDM models, changes that are mostly appearance related. The five bolt hub design, for example, keeps the same brake rotor size and calipers that were used on the earlier EP3 Si USDM.

2004/2005 USDM models do have a bigger rear swaybar and different spring rates, so stock vs stock the later models will handle slightly better.

However, if you buy a 2002 or 2003 USDM EP3 and put a Mugen SS and DC5 ITR rear swaybar on it, you will handily outperform the 2004/2005 USDM EP3's revised suspension by a decent margin.

As far as looks go, I think I slightly prefer the early 2002/2003 cars, for whatever that's worth.

As far as the EP3 vs the DC5 goes, I don't think there's much difference if you're talking EP3 vs baseline USDM RSX. The polar moment of inertia will be better w/the EP3...it will turn faster on the track because, although the cars weigh about the same, the EP3's weight is more in one place. Both the EP3 and DC5 suffer the same problems inherent with track use of a McPherson front/front design.

If you are shopping for a 2002-2004 Type S versus your EP3 idea, then that's a completely different animal. The 2002-2004 Type S will have 40 more horsepower and bigger brakes. If you have the money for and you are interested in the Type S, then it's really no contest. I'd still pick the EP3 if I knew I'd be doing a lot of modifying...but otherwise I'd definitely get the Type S if it's affordable for you.

Now...the 2005 DC5 USDM Type S is a completely different animal.

Don't be fooled by that rated 210 HP...it really is completely different in the driving. The Type R motor internals and new computer give it a lot more power under the curve, and you seem to have power in all gears at all RPM, but it'll still scream right up to redline and provide an overall quite pleasurable driving experience.

Honda also listened to the criticisms of racers and avid track drivers and made a number of small refinements to the DC5 USDM suspension for 2005, and these changes probably make the 2005 DC5 USDM Type S the best handling McPherson front driver you could hope to own.

I am gathering, however, that buying a new 2005 Type S is out of the question for you.

 

First off thanks a lot for the info. I really don't know what to get. Both have their advantages. Type-S, more potent engine, heated side mirrors, leather. Si 5 seats and from what I've heard better buckets. Both have good crash test and reliability ratings. I am going to change the suspension and wheels and want to hit 14's in the 1/4 mi. Only N/A though. If I can get these with the Si then I'm leaning towards that. It is more practical and looks good too. At first I didn't like the style but after seeing it up close, it really grows on you. I'm not biased and like alot of different vehicles.

 

Also, the 02-03 ep3 has a smaller turning radius then the 04-05 ep3's.

 

Why not get a used 03 and drop a K20Z in there? You'll still be about $5,000 less than a new Type-S after putting on new wheels and struts along with the engine/tranny.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jimmyjames &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why not get a used 03 and drop a K20Z in there? You'll still be about $5,000 less than a new Type-S after putting on new wheels and struts along with the engine/tranny.</TD></TR></TABLE>

When my K20A3 gets up around 75,000 miles, a K20Z1 is exactly what this driver has in mind.

I drive about 25,000/year so it won't take long!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Now...the 2005 DC5 USDM Type S is a completely different animal.

Don't be fooled by that rated 210 HP...it really is completely different in the driving. The Type R motor internals and new computer give it a lot more power under the curve, and you seem to have power in all gears at all RPM, but it'll still scream right up to redline and provide an overall quite pleasurable driving experience.

Honda also listened to the criticisms of racers and avid track drivers and made a number of small refinements to the DC5 USDM suspension for 2005, and these changes probably make the 2005 DC5 USDM Type S the best handling McPherson front driver you could hope to own.

I am gathering, however, that buying a new 2005 Type S is out of the question for you. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I hate honda-tech sometimes, I'm trying to convince myself a used 11K Si would be a good purchase when I know that I reall want a black 05 S.

The 05 is IMO the best FWD honda has ever made, the ITR is now not even in the same relm when you can chase one down in what is surely an M3 inspired interior.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stormy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I hate honda-tech sometimes....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hey, if you get mad in here, have a gander at the ITR Forum and GDD.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The 05 is IMO the best FWD honda has ever made, the ITR is now not even in the same relm when you can chase one down in what is surely an M3 inspired interior. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The '05 DC5 Type S is absolutely awesome (for an FF McPherson car). Where the old DC2 ITR chassis and the new CL7/CL9 chassis will surpass even the new DC5 chassis (and the EP3 chassis, of course) is when you hit a bump because of a road vagary or because you've bounced off a gater.

I think the '05 DC5 Type S is absolutely awesome and would be an ideal buy for any number of people. The double wishbone cars, however, do still enjoy a theoretical advantage that might be evident in the hands of the most expert drivers.

Because those most expert drivers would notice the difference, I am going to respectfully dissent from your characterisation of it as the best Honda design ever.

Anybody who buys an '05 DC5 Type S will, nonetheless, get a very nice car for a very good price. The DC5 Type R doesn't have much advantage over it at all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Hey, if you get mad in here, have a gander at the ITR Forum and GDD.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

joking

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The '05 DC5 Type S is absolutely awesome (for an FF McPherson car). Where the old DC2 ITR chassis and the new CL7/CL9 chassis will surpass even the new DC5 chassis (and the EP3 chassis, of course) is when you hit a bump because of a road vagary or because you've bounced off a gater.

I think the '05 DC5 Type S is absolutely awesome and would be an ideal buy for any number of people. The double wishbone cars, however, do still enjoy a theoretical advantage that might be evident in the hands of the most expert drivers.

Because those most expert drivers would notice the difference, I am going to respectfully dissent from your characterisation of it as the best Honda design ever.

Anybody who buys an '05 DC5 Type S will, nonetheless, get a very nice car for a very good price. The DC5 Type R doesn't have much advantage over it at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

IMHO much of the talk about mac pherson struts is a baseless arguement, BMW , subaru and Mitsubishi sure have done well for themselves with it.

Yes supposedly the new TSX is easier to set up the suspension, however the chasis for the RSX is in every concievable way better than the DC2 (which I've had 3 of BTW) and the car is certainly better build quality

Honda claims that on there test course the new ITR is 1 second faster than the old. It basically comes down to is like OBD2 was to engines struts will be to suspension, a step up in tuning will have to happen to accompany it.

I've driven a new ITR and it's still noticeably faster due to much lower weight than the 05

 

Didn't Mugen dump the RSX to run the new Euro Accord? It was because the RSX's chassis was never going to be great with its struts. Double wishbone is where it's at for ultimate performance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jimmyjames &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why not get a used 03 and drop a K20Z in there? You'll still be about $5,000 less than a new Type-S after putting on new wheels and struts along with the engine/tranny.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where would I get this done though? I would still like the car to have all it's amenities in order, cruise, a/c, etc... as if it was the original engine in there. I don't know of any places that will do this. Uhhh ....what is the K20Z? Is that the Civic Type R motor?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jimmyjames &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Didn't Mugen dump the RSX to run the new Euro Accord? It was because the RSX's chassis was never going to be great with its struts. Double wishbone is where it's at for ultimate performance.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well we don't get the euro R so the RSX is still a better car than the TSX, and it can still be a much better car than the DC2 but some people feel it's not the best but they are thinking very limitedly

The fact the Opak RSX was passing the CRX during time attack even thought the crx was considerably lighter shows how high its potential can be

 

02 si didnt have the inner cut key or green glass but most is the same with the 03 until the 04 which others have noted the differences....