I just wanted to get this cleared up so I gatta ask, a B20B block/head and a GSR head/block. Which would make more power? Both have same parts, both resleeved, both same psi, i always thought the b20 would have the same power just more torque cuz of the extra .2 litres

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91DroppedHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i always thought the b20 would have the same power just more torque cuz of the extra .2 litres</TD></TR></TABLE>

Torque is found mostly in stroke and B18's and B20's have the same stroke. B20's have a 84mm bore and should give you higher hp levels.

 

you can't compair the motors only on their stroke! They have the same stroke but are completely different.


I have a b18c1 and would definatly keep my motor over a b20. Stock for Stock the b18c1 is much more fun in a turbo setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91DroppedHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I just wanted to get this cleared up so I gatta ask, a B20B block/head and a GSR head/block. Which would make more power? Both have same parts, both resleeved, both same psi, i always thought the b20 would have the same power just more torque cuz of the extra .2 litres</TD></TR></TABLE>

Something like this was in a tread last week, but the gsr motor is going to give you more HP. The Gsr head will just out flow the Ls head. Theres alot more that goes into making power then just displacement.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toolowsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can't compair the motors only on their stroke! They have the same stroke but are completely different.


I have a b18c1 and would definatly keep my motor over a b20. Stock for Stock the b18c1 is much more fun in a turbo setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

easy... I was just saying that the torque won't be all that different between the two. Also he is not comparing stock engines on boost he said they would be resleeved so i would have to go with the B20

 

yeah i don't know anything about b20 heads but a b20 w/GSR head or b16 head would be sweet. Also the transmission would have to be off a b16.

 

well if they were being resleeved, why couldnt you bore out the C1 to 84mm? Either way I would say the C1 would destroy it on a turbo set up. The b20 just doesnt flow as well

 

it seems as though no one has actually even answered your question so let me answer it. the B20 will yield better torque due to the displacement/stroke but because of the lack of flow due to the head/intake manifold designs will have lower hp and lack top end. the B18C1 is the total opposite.

however if you modify the B20 slightly ~ pnp, IM, TB, cams, etc. you will be able to squeeze out more power from the B20 than a B18C1 cause you're allowing the B20 head to flow just as well as the C1's head.

 

eh but that goes the same way for the C1. Get better cams, PnP bore it to the same bore. blah blah blah

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Benjithx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Torque is found mostly in stroke and B18's and B20's have the same stroke. B20's have a 84mm bore and should give you higher hp levels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Wrong the b18b and b18c have around a 1.72mm difference in stroke, which in a 4 cylinder, is a big difference. Why do you think that people with Ls motors, including me, are always saying how we like the low end torque of the Ls compared to the Gsr. and a bigger bore doesnt give you more Hp, Compression and head flow do, that is why the Gsr with Vtec is the dominate b-series motor. Except of course for the rare type Rs and Lsvtecs

But to answer the question, if they were both heavily modified blocks then it would all come down to tuning, car weight, and driver. their are just too many factors to put in the determine which is better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95GSRTT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">eh but that goes the same way for the C1. Get better cams, PnP bore it to the same bore. blah blah blah</TD></TR></TABLE>

with a Vtec head already close to perfection you don't have much room to improve on...where as the non-vtec heads are far from perfection and can be modified intensely.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

with a Vtec head already close to perfection you don't have much room to improve on...where as the non-vtec heads are far from perfection and can be modified intensely. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont think that's the truth at all. The truth, is that V-TEC heads flow so well stock, for turbo cars that no one really bothers making them better. There's alot of horse power that can be made from getting a V-TEC head done. In some case I've seen over 140 whp from reworking a V-TEC head. It's just more cost affective for most of us to turn up the boost then, pay for porting, cams, bigger valves, IM's, valve springs, retaineers, and trottle bodies. If you try running a T67 on a b18c with a built buttom end, and then did head work. It would be a night and day difference between the stock head car, and the reworked head car. 1st off just shifting at 9800 compared to 8200 is going to be a big difference in your power band. 2nd head porting and and intake manifolds and cams are going to make more power as you increase engine speed. 3rd if you were right there would be alot more people running LS's or strait b20's setups at the track.

 

with all this talk about p&p head ect ect......why not just resleeve the b18c1 block to 2.0L and call it the day?

 

If your looking at stock engine give me B18c1 anyday.

Thicker sleeves and oil jets under the pistons go along way when you run more boost

Why do you need sick torque in a front driver? wheel spin is wheel spin regardless how much torque, id argue a b18c is easier to hook up, so not only is it more reliable, but in the real world its likely to be faster.

 

the crank difference alone is enough for the 18 to own

 

b18c1&gt;b20 anyday

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">however if you modify the B20 slightly ~ pnp, IM, TB, cams, etc. you will be able to squeeze out more power from the B20 than a B18C1 cause you're allowing the B20 head to flow just as well as the C1's head.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stock GSR cams: 230/216 @ .050, .423/.378 lift
Crower LS Turbo Cams: 190/190 @ .050, .469/.469 lift

More duration, bigger valves, more flow, the power still goes to the VTEC head. 40 degrees duration makes a huge difference in how much power the car will make.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Stock GSR cams: 230/216 @ .050, .423/.378 lift
Crower LS Turbo Cams: 190/190 @ .050, .469/.469 lift

More duration, bigger valves, more flow, the power still goes to the VTEC head. 40 degrees duration makes a huge difference in how much power the car will make.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


if you didn't already know, let me inform you that DURATION is what KILLS turbo'd motors. you want more LIFT and less DURATION. duration is good for all motor where in vtec or higher rpms it creates a vacuum like flow. when there is pressurized air being squeezed into the cylinder, with more duration, all that pressurized air will just leak out into the exhaust manifold.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


if you didn't already know, let me inform you that DURATION is what KILLS turbo'd motors. you want more LIFT and less DURATION. duration is good for all motor where in vtec or higher rpms it creates a vacuum like flow. when there is pressurized air being squeezed into the cylinder, with more duration, all that pressurized air will just leak out into the exhaust manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sherman hit it on the dot like he banged my hot sister

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rhamlinii &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I dont think that's the truth at all. The truth, is that V-TEC heads flow so well stock, for turbo cars that no one really bothers making them better. There's alot of horse power that can be made from getting a V-TEC head done. In some case I've seen over 140 whp from reworking a V-TEC head. It's just more cost affective for most of us to turn up the boost then, pay for porting, cams, bigger valves, IM's, valve springs, retaineers, and trottle bodies. If you try running a T67 on a b18c with a built buttom end, and then did head work. It would be a night and day difference between the stock head car, and the reworked head car. 1st off just shifting at 9800 compared to 8200 is going to be a big difference in your power band. 2nd head porting and and intake manifolds and cams are going to make more power as you increase engine speed. 3rd if you were right there would be alot more people running LS's or strait b20's setups at the track. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i stand corrected but you've taken this discussion to a whole new level when you talk about raising redlines, adding larger turbos, etc. i should of made myself clear when i posted earliler because i was referring to simple street setups such as my own.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


if you didn't already know, let me inform you that DURATION is what KILLS turbo'd motors. you want more LIFT and less DURATION. duration is good for all motor where in vtec or higher rpms it creates a vacuum like flow. when there is pressurized air being squeezed into the cylinder, with more duration, all that pressurized air will just leak out into the exhaust manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you didn't already know, let me inform you that DURATION is NOT what KILLS turbo'd MOTORS. Go tell boostfed that the 30 WHP he made switching from B16A cams to ITR cams shouldn't have happened because more duration is bad for turbo. Go tell crower they're idiots because their off the shelf turbo cams for VTEC hondas have more duration than stock B16 cams or stock GSR cams. Go to an NMRA race and tell all those pro-5.0 guys running cams that are like 270/240 @ .050 that they are idiots and duration doesn't make power.

Duration is like your turbocharger size. More duration makes more power in the higher RPM ranges. Less duration makes more power down low, but less power up top. Only difference between a forced induction and a naturally aspirated motor is the FI motor holds onto torque in the high RPM's better than a N/A motor, so you don't need as much duration for a given RPM range. There's much more to cam design than JUST duration and lift. One thing that is overlooked so much on hondas is the LSA, or lobe seperation angle. A 114 LSA vs. a 107 LSA can have a massive effect on the amount of overlap with your camshaft. A 205/205 @ .050 camshaft ground on a 107 LSA has the same amount of overlap as a 220/220 @ .050 camshaft ground on a 114 LSA. Looking at it from your perspective, you'd say the 205/205 cam is better for the turbocharged motor because it has less duration, but looking at it from my perspective I would say both camshafts have very little overlap, but the 220/220 cam will make significantly more power on a honda motor that will make power to 8500+ RPM's.

A very good read to learn more about camshaft design and theory for turbocharged engines is David Vizard's "How to Build & Modify Chevrolet Small-Block V-8 Camshafts & Valvetrains", while it's focused around SBC's, it has a lot of good info, and I would recommend it. Amazon link to book

 

so basically, the vtec head has the upper hand, and thats pretty much the only thing that has the gsr on top from the b20? By adding a vtec head would make the b20 a lil better choice out of the two?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sohc Driver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sherman hit it on the dot like he banged my hot sister </TD></TR></TABLE>
pics of hot sister?

 

the b18c will be better unless u throw a vtec head on the b20, and thats what it comes down to