whats going on every one?

well i am in the market for suspension parts and one of the things i have been looking at is trailing bushing from mugen, prothan, and jhpusa they sell one too. i could not find any theads on that subject to see what people thots about it. if any one has any feed back to give me some one who to talk to about ta bushing that would be very thankful.....

this set up i listed is changing i am looking at doing road racing..

here are a few things i done to the car now
tokico"front"
kyb"rear"
honda sport springs
nuespeed front upper, rear upper, rear lower brace
doloc rear cross brace
energy suspension bushing

thanks every one for your time

 

what do you use the car for? oem bushings are the nicest feeling, i'd stick with them.

 

Get oem or mugen - do NOT use poly in the trailing arm, and if it is worn out, replace it!

 

to be onest with you i used to do alot of street racing but i trying to get out of that and take it to the track.. thats the smart thing to do...... i been wanting to do a little bit of road racing it seems like fun hang out and just chil.

also the car is a 95 coupe with 135k on it
and also a b18c1 motor in it

thanks every one for your hit back

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do NOT use poly in the trailing arm</TD></TR></TABLE> why not?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> why not?</TD></TR></TABLE>

poly binds and does not allow the range of motion provided by the OEM rubber bushing - look at how the suspension moves and take a stock bushing and move it - it only moves in one axis, while the poly bushing does not allow for this movement at all. OEM, Mugen or Spherical bearing is the only way to go

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=493789

 

General Rules for Honda Trailing Arm Bushing...

1-OEM for the street
2-Mugen for the street/autox/race
3-Bearings for racing only
4-Poly for the garbage

 

I think it would be fine for drag racing purposes sence it wouldn't get that much flex.

 

My car is driven daily, has seen auto-X and track time. I replaced the old trailing arm bushings with ones from the dealer - it made an incredible improvement as far as stability (and predictability). OEM bushings will do fine - they are cheaper as well.

 

mugen

 

yup mugen is the way to go for sure

http://www.kingmotorsports.com

 

The bushings currently sold at your Honda dealer (52385-SR3-000) are <U>exactly</U> the same as the ones Mugen is selling.

Unless you have had one of each in your hands at the same time, don't say it isn't so. I have!

That's not to say that they are the same as what was in the car originally.

Wes Vann

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wes V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The bushings currently sold at your Honda dealer (52385-SR3-000) are <U>exactly</U> the same as the ones Mugen is selling.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you done a durometer test on the rubber?

 

No I have not, however it's possible to flex the bushings and they feel exactly the same.

I still stand by the comment about having one of each in your hands at the same time to compare them!

Wes

 

I can take konis, stock shocks, omni, tein, etc and compress them and they will "feel" the same.

I have a very hard time believing the mugen pieces are the same as OEM, especially from what some of the track guys have said about moving from the OEM rear TA bushing to the Mugen.

 

I purchased the Mugen bushings for my 89 and was told by Kingmotorsport that they were "110 percent stiffer" than the Honda ones. That's more than twice as stiff and I feel it's something that you could feel by flexing the cross-shaft.

After purchasing them I found out that Honda was selling them (without having to buy the complete arm), so I went by the dealer to see them.

Honda made the bushings available as part of Service Bulletin 00-006, dated December 11,2001. This was done due to Honda realizing that they would have to replace damaged bushings (at their cost).

What I'd guess happened is that Mugen originally spec'd the current bushings. When Honda realized they had a problem, the decided to make available the "better" bushings and avoid any future problems.

As I've said, the current bushings are NOT the same as what originally came in the cars! If somebody says that the Mugen bushings are better than the originals, that's VERY true.

Wes Vann

 

I have OEM ones and they made quite a difference. Definitly worth the money!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wes V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I purchased the Mugen bushings for my 89 and was told by Kingmotorsport that they were "110 percent stiffer" than the Honda ones. That's more than twice as stiff and I feel it's something that you could feel by flexing the cross-shaft.

After purchasing them I found out that Honda was selling them (without having to buy the complete arm), so I went by the dealer to see them.

Honda made the bushings available as part of Service Bulletin 00-006, dated December 11,2001. This was done due to Honda realizing that they would have to replace damaged bushings (at their cost).

What I'd guess happened is that Mugen originally spec'd the current bushings. When Honda realized they had a problem, the decided to make available the "better" bushings and avoid any future problems.

As I've said, the current bushings are NOT the same as what originally came in the cars! If somebody says that the Mugen bushings are better than the originals, that's VERY true.

Wes Vann</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what your trying to say is that Honda is selling people the Mugen Bushing? I find that hard to believe. Doesn't the Mugen one have Mugen stamped on it or something, so you can show it off to all the ricers?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Doesn't the Mugen one have Mugen stamped on it or something, so you can show it off to all the ricers?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Seriously, you gotta have that!

&lt;--- ricer

 

I don't know what poly trailing arm bushing you are talking about but the Prothane and the Energy Suspension trailing arm bushings both feature a fully floating center pin. What kind of articulation do you want the trailing arms to do? Any in and out movement of the T arms is going to cause toe change, and correct me if I'm wrong, but toe change during cornering load is another way of saying bump steer.

I can't help but get the feeling that the statement that poly trailing arm bushings cause binding is this is just a rumor started when one person made a tentative claim and then the honda tech mechanism of disseminating and perpetuating misinformation took over.

I know that everyone here is going to jump all over my back for even questioning it, but I'm just looking for the truth. I don't have my pride invested in the fact that I have urethane trailing arm bushings or anything. I'm willing to accept whatever proof is found.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a very hard time believing the mugen pieces are the same as OEM, especially from what some of the track guys have said about moving from the OEM rear TA bushing to the Mugen.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Some of what they have observed is probably because they're replacing old bushings with new, regardless of the rubber density.

If you purchase OEM bushings made after 2002, I know that they are different and stiffer than the OEM bushings before that; however, I do not know if they are exactly the same stiffness as the Mugen bushings.

 

Take a stock TA bushing out of a car and look how it moves.

Then look at a poly TA bushing. The difference is very obvious, and the rear suspension has designed-in bumpsteer (toe change under droop and compression) and there's not anything you can do about unless you start relocating the toe compensator arm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know what poly trailing arm bushing you are talking about but the Prothane and the Energy Suspension trailing arm bushings both feature a fully floating center pin. What kind of articulation do you want the trailing arms to do? Any in and out movement of the T arms is going to cause toe change, and correct me if I'm wrong, but toe change during cornering load is [bad].</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have to admit that I am waiting for a better explanation, too.

In some ways, I can imagine that the stiffest rubber bushing would cause the same binding effect that some people are afraid the plastic ones are causing.

I can also imagine that at some point in our developmental history, someone did product plastic bushings without any flex or consideration to the arm's movement, and this could have caused problems.

 

I would not use poly bushings in any of the rear suspension - take the shocks and springs out and move the suspension through its motion - the arms do not move in just one axis! Poly will bind and wear out much faster than the OEM rubber.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then look at a poly TA bushing. The difference is very obvious, and the rear suspension has designed-in bumpsteer (toe change under droop and compression) and there's not anything you can do about unless you start relocating the toe compensator arm.</TD></TR></TABLE>

RJ, I think there's no way to avoid that when you're designing a car like that.

I don't think they did it as a deliberate part of vehicle dynamics...they just couldn't avoid it and still have a streetable car that could be homologated.

The suspension droop also produces positive camber.

The combination of suddenly going to positive camber and toe-out under extreme loads can make for a very squirrely car, as I'm sure you already know.

If you and I were each of us putting a car together, I think we'd put it together the same way:

• Stiffer (but rubber) bushings
• Zero to slightly negative toe
• Negative camber

That combination will offset the suspension droop phenomenon's ill effects while also providing a fully steetable automobile.