95 Accord EX ... Starting problem fixed??
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 38
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From: charlotte, NC, USA
95 Accord EX ... Starting problem fixed??
I was told at the auto shop that my timing belt was the problem with the 95 Accord EX not starting. It made the sound like the sparks plugs were fireing but the engine wasn't turning over.
My questiions:
A- How does a timing belt jump out of gear while the car is parked?
B- What are the steps for diagnosing it was the belt at fault?
(assuming starter, dizzy and battery are fine [see below for explanation])
(**can you determine the belt is broken without opening it up? ie. dizzy parts
moving when front wheel is rotated?**)
C- How much shop time does it take to change a belt? ie. only removal of the top
gasket and belt cover?
-------------------
Background info:
I started my car in the morning without any trouble at all. Never had a symptoms. When I went to the store and came back to my car, it only made a "click click" sound. Jump-starting would not work.
I called a mechanic friend of mine and we started to trouble shoot. We took out the starter and took it to NAPA but there was nothing wrong with it. My friend lifted the car and took off the distributor cap to see if it turned when we spin the front wheel. (He told me that if it spins then the timing belt is fine). Well, it did not spin.
Finally, we had it towed to the shop and I was on my own from then. I explaned the situation to the shop guy and he told me he would check it before changing the timing belt.
It turns out there "may" have been more than one problem. The connection to the battery was bad so they changed it. It no longer made the "click click" sound. Now it sounded like the sparking were fireing but the engine was not turning over.
The only reason the shop guy gave me for the problem is that the sound indicated a timing belt problem. Thats what the entire diagnosis consisted of (a sound). [[see above for my question]]
**Final note: I have read almost all the threads about accord 94-97 not starting on this forum. That is a lot of valuable information and I wouldn't even be asking my question if I didn't learn so much from those threads.
Great Forum BTW!!!
My questiions:
A- How does a timing belt jump out of gear while the car is parked?
B- What are the steps for diagnosing it was the belt at fault?
(assuming starter, dizzy and battery are fine [see below for explanation])
(**can you determine the belt is broken without opening it up? ie. dizzy parts
moving when front wheel is rotated?**)
C- How much shop time does it take to change a belt? ie. only removal of the top
gasket and belt cover?
-------------------
Background info:
I started my car in the morning without any trouble at all. Never had a symptoms. When I went to the store and came back to my car, it only made a "click click" sound. Jump-starting would not work.
I called a mechanic friend of mine and we started to trouble shoot. We took out the starter and took it to NAPA but there was nothing wrong with it. My friend lifted the car and took off the distributor cap to see if it turned when we spin the front wheel. (He told me that if it spins then the timing belt is fine). Well, it did not spin.
Finally, we had it towed to the shop and I was on my own from then. I explaned the situation to the shop guy and he told me he would check it before changing the timing belt.
It turns out there "may" have been more than one problem. The connection to the battery was bad so they changed it. It no longer made the "click click" sound. Now it sounded like the sparking were fireing but the engine was not turning over.
The only reason the shop guy gave me for the problem is that the sound indicated a timing belt problem. Thats what the entire diagnosis consisted of (a sound). [[see above for my question]]
**Final note: I have read almost all the threads about accord 94-97 not starting on this forum. That is a lot of valuable information and I wouldn't even be asking my question if I didn't learn so much from those threads.
Great Forum BTW!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: charlotte, NC, USA
OK, Maybe that is too much stuff
Can someone please answer this question for me?
B- What are the steps for diagnosing the belt was faulty?
(assuming starter, dizzy and battery are fine)
(**can you determine the belt is broken without opening it up? ie. dizzy parts
moving when front wheel is rotated?**)
B- What are the steps for diagnosing the belt was faulty?
(assuming starter, dizzy and battery are fine)
(**can you determine the belt is broken without opening it up? ie. dizzy parts
moving when front wheel is rotated?**)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Chino Hills, CA, United States
Re: OK, Maybe that is too much stuff (norcim)
as of now my 94 accord is having the same problem... i took out the starter and checked it and it is still good... however, i didn't check the distributor
my problem is it clicks when i start it but it cranks up maybe 20% of the time i try to start it... i've had this problem for about 2 weeks now... i cant find the source of this problem either... i dont want to spend 100 for a new starter if it isn't it and i really dont think it is...
however... the weird part is... i have a 5 speed and i can start my car fine when i roll start it... meaning i can start it by letting it roll a little and pop the clutch in gear to get the flywheel spinning to cause the car to start... so im at a loss too...
my problem is it clicks when i start it but it cranks up maybe 20% of the time i try to start it... i've had this problem for about 2 weeks now... i cant find the source of this problem either... i dont want to spend 100 for a new starter if it isn't it and i really dont think it is...
however... the weird part is... i have a 5 speed and i can start my car fine when i roll start it... meaning i can start it by letting it roll a little and pop the clutch in gear to get the flywheel spinning to cause the car to start... so im at a loss too...
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: charlotte, NC, USA
Re: OK, Maybe that is too much stuff (Drywater2005)
I hope one of the gurus finds this thread but from what I have been told....
The dizzy has this part inside that scrapes up againt the cap to cause the spark plugs to fire. If you turn the front wheels manually, then that part of the dizzy will start to spin also (if timeing belt is working fine). From what I understand, making that part spin by rolling the tire is like bypassing the starter (?)
soo, the way I see it, if you spin the tire and it starts up but if you have trouble without spinning the tire, it is probably your starter or the relay on the starter. You said the starter checks out fine so maybe its the part of the dizzy that connects to the battery that is faulty. Or, as in my case, there is a minor electrical problem. The lead to my battery was fryed and made tiny sparks. I changed them for $10 and the "click click" problem was eliminated.
So what sound is it making when it doesn't start?
The dizzy has this part inside that scrapes up againt the cap to cause the spark plugs to fire. If you turn the front wheels manually, then that part of the dizzy will start to spin also (if timeing belt is working fine). From what I understand, making that part spin by rolling the tire is like bypassing the starter (?)
soo, the way I see it, if you spin the tire and it starts up but if you have trouble without spinning the tire, it is probably your starter or the relay on the starter. You said the starter checks out fine so maybe its the part of the dizzy that connects to the battery that is faulty. Or, as in my case, there is a minor electrical problem. The lead to my battery was fryed and made tiny sparks. I changed them for $10 and the "click click" problem was eliminated.
So what sound is it making when it doesn't start?
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 0
From: Gatineau, Quebec
Re: OK, Maybe that is too much stuff (norcim)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by norcim »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So what sound is it making when it doesn't start?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Usually, when a timing belt breaks, the engine will spin faster than usual when attempting to start it. Since the timing belt controls the camshaft rotation, thus the valves opening and closing, you can just imagine that some cylinders will have zero compression (intake or exaust valves are stuck open). thus the engine will spin faster.
Also, if the belt has jumped a tooth, what happens is that the notches in the belt will round themselves enough to slip by the pulley tooth, thus screwing up your timing. When you try to start a car that has jumped a tooth, usually, by deduction and experience, you can tell if this has happened because the engine will sorta studder when attempting to fire. Or run like hell.
Does this make sense to you?
fs
Modified by filthy_shovel at 7:53 AM 1/6/2005
So what sound is it making when it doesn't start?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Usually, when a timing belt breaks, the engine will spin faster than usual when attempting to start it. Since the timing belt controls the camshaft rotation, thus the valves opening and closing, you can just imagine that some cylinders will have zero compression (intake or exaust valves are stuck open). thus the engine will spin faster.
Also, if the belt has jumped a tooth, what happens is that the notches in the belt will round themselves enough to slip by the pulley tooth, thus screwing up your timing. When you try to start a car that has jumped a tooth, usually, by deduction and experience, you can tell if this has happened because the engine will sorta studder when attempting to fire. Or run like hell.
Does this make sense to you?
fs
Modified by filthy_shovel at 7:53 AM 1/6/2005
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,132
Likes: 5
Re: OK, Maybe that is too much stuff (Drywater2005)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Drywater2005 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...
my problem is it clicks when i start it but it cranks up maybe 20% of the time i try to start it... i've had this problem for about 2 weeks now... i cant find the source of this problem either... i dont want to spend 100 for a new starter if it isn't it and i really dont think it is...</TD></TR></TABLE>First, since you can always start it by rolling & popping the clutch, you know your engine/fuel/distributor/timingbelt are all OK. It's gotta be somewhere in the starting system.
Got a multi-meter? Next time it just 'clicks', be prepared to do some measuring.
Measure voltage across the actual battery posts while someone tries to start it. If it drops below about 8v, you need a new battery. Otherwise keep reading...
Measure voltage of the small signal wire at the starter, vs. ground. That should get good healthy battery voltage when the key is turned to 'start'. If it sometimes doesn't, then post back & we'll talk about flaky ignition switches & clutch interlocks. (Normally when this is the problem it doesn't click when you try it.)
Try hitting the starter with a broom handle or something. If that makes it start, then you need a new starter.
That gets us to the connections on all the big battery/ground cables. Any of them can be corroded, dirty, or just loose. This includes both ends of ALL the big cables, including the engine-to-body grounds. When you mess with the big (+) cable to the starter, first disconnect the battery (-) cable so you don't short anything.
my problem is it clicks when i start it but it cranks up maybe 20% of the time i try to start it... i've had this problem for about 2 weeks now... i cant find the source of this problem either... i dont want to spend 100 for a new starter if it isn't it and i really dont think it is...</TD></TR></TABLE>First, since you can always start it by rolling & popping the clutch, you know your engine/fuel/distributor/timingbelt are all OK. It's gotta be somewhere in the starting system.
Got a multi-meter? Next time it just 'clicks', be prepared to do some measuring.
Measure voltage across the actual battery posts while someone tries to start it. If it drops below about 8v, you need a new battery. Otherwise keep reading...
Measure voltage of the small signal wire at the starter, vs. ground. That should get good healthy battery voltage when the key is turned to 'start'. If it sometimes doesn't, then post back & we'll talk about flaky ignition switches & clutch interlocks. (Normally when this is the problem it doesn't click when you try it.)
Try hitting the starter with a broom handle or something. If that makes it start, then you need a new starter.
That gets us to the connections on all the big battery/ground cables. Any of them can be corroded, dirty, or just loose. This includes both ends of ALL the big cables, including the engine-to-body grounds. When you mess with the big (+) cable to the starter, first disconnect the battery (-) cable so you don't short anything.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: charlotte, NC, USA
Re: OK, Maybe that is too much stuff (filthy_shovel)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by filthy_shovel »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Does this make sense to you?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand that now. Thanks.
Other than the sound, how do I check for a faulty timing belt without opening the cover? Noone has told me I am absolutley wrong when I said "rotating the tire manually will cause parts in the dizzy to start turning also"(eg. no turning in dizzy means faulty belt).
Does this make sense to you?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand that now. Thanks.
Other than the sound, how do I check for a faulty timing belt without opening the cover? Noone has told me I am absolutley wrong when I said "rotating the tire manually will cause parts in the dizzy to start turning also"(eg. no turning in dizzy means faulty belt).
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 1
From: TX
Re: 95 Accord EX ... Starting problem fixed?? (norcim)
does your engine crank?
if so, take the cap off and crank it, see if the dizzy is turning.
If turning then you belt is still on.
IF not turning then could be your dizzy tooth broke'd inside or belt is broken/missing tooth, etc. ( Belt train ).
The only way to check for timming belt is to take off the cover. manually rotate the crank slow and inspect .
if so, take the cap off and crank it, see if the dizzy is turning.
If turning then you belt is still on.
IF not turning then could be your dizzy tooth broke'd inside or belt is broken/missing tooth, etc. ( Belt train ).
The only way to check for timming belt is to take off the cover. manually rotate the crank slow and inspect .
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,494
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From: Wrightsville, PA, U.S.A.
Re: OK, Maybe that is too much stuff (Drywater2005)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Drywater2005 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
my problem is it clicks when i start it but it cranks up maybe 20% of the time i try to start it... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Had the same problem, warranty paid all but $50 for parts & labor
replaced with a new starter & it was good to go.
my problem is it clicks when i start it but it cranks up maybe 20% of the time i try to start it... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Had the same problem, warranty paid all but $50 for parts & labor
replaced with a new starter & it was good to go.
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