do you guys know any good techniques in shifting. Terms
+Power shifting
+Short shifting
+Double clutch

Just need to know what your guys opinion on shifting when racing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adobospoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you guys know any good techniques in shifting. Terms
+Power shifting
+Short shifting
+Double clutch

Just need to know what your guys opinion on shifting when racing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just shift. It's not that hard.

Power shifting will ruin synchronizers unless you know exactly what you're doing

Short shifting isn't often useful, especially for drag racing with a peaky powerband. I have found only a few cases when it is useful for autocross and track driving.

Double clutching is used to save wear on synchronizers when downshifting. I do it frequently.

 

press the clutch down before you shift in to gear

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just shift. It's not that hard.

Power shifting will ruin synchronizers unless you know exactly what you're doing

Short shifting isn't often useful, especially for drag racing with a peaky powerband. I have found only a few cases when it is useful for autocross and track driving.

Double clutching is used to save wear on synchronizers when downshifting. I do it frequently.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you are not double clutching... or i hope not... waste of time unless you drive a big rig...

you are prolly just match rpm down shifting....

the key to good shifting, practice makes perfect...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyree &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">press the clutch down before you shift in to gear </TD></TR></TABLE>

and dont let go until your cars in the next gear.

dont feather the clutch either.

 

just shift normally. and dont slam it into gear

 

whats short shifting? i shift normal

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats short shifting? i shift normal</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly what one who "guess"

shifting before you run out of gear. [before the engine reaches max operating speed].

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chris c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you are not double clutching... or i hope not... waste of time unless you drive a big rig...

you are prolly just match rpm down shifting....

the key to good shifting, practice makes perfect...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wrong, if you don't double clutch when you are trying to downshift pretty hard, you will eat thru your synchros buddy. You got to match the input shaft speed on big downshifts.

 

^ isnt that called rev matching, and not double clutching.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chris c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you are not double clutching... or i hope not... waste of time unless you drive a big rig...

you are prolly just match rpm down shifting....

the key to good shifting, practice makes perfect...

</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't tell me what I am and am not doing.

I use a combo heel-toe double-clutch technique for every downshift into 3rd and 2nd gear, because the synchros in my S4C are shot.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IVI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^ isnt that called rev matching, and not double clutching.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Rev-matching and double-clutching are two different things; however, rev-matching is used during a double-clutch maneuver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ABK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wrong, if you don't double clutch when you are trying to downshift pretty hard, you will eat thru your synchros buddy. You got to match the input shaft speed on big downshifts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

double clutching is for tranny's WITHOUT syncro's...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chris c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

double clutching is for tranny's WITHOUT syncro's... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Double-clutching is for any manual transmission.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Rev-matching and double-clutching are two different things; however, rev-matching is used during a double-clutch maneuver.</TD></TR></TABLE>

does it neccesarily have to be double clutched when you rev match?

cant you also for an example down shift from 5th to 4th, press clutch, goto 4th, rev match, let go of clutch.

instead of clutch, neutral, clutch, rev match, 4th?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IVI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does it neccesarily have to be double clutched when you rev match?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cant you also for an example down shift from 5th to 4th, press clutch, goto 4th, rev match, let go of clutch.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sure you can. But this only saves wear on the clutch and prevents shock to the drivetrain - it doesn't save any wear on the synchros because you're not matching the speed of the transmission's input shaft to the output shaft.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">instead of clutch, neutral, clutch, rev match, 4th?</TD></TR></TABLE>
For a double clutch maneuver:

clutch in -&gt; neutral -&gt; clutch out -&gt; rev match -&gt; clutch in -&gt; select gear -&gt; clutch out

 

here is a clear cut example of the need for "double clutching"...

you are driving in a vehicle @ 60 mph in 5th gear. you switch in neutral and are coasting. speed is dropping and the transmission internals are slowing, but not at the same rate. you engage the clutch and go for 4th gear. if you have a syncro's tranny is will go right into gear. if not it will grind and not go in.

the non-syncro'd tranny will require you to bump the engine to an rpm that will match road speed prior to engaging the clutch. on a tranny with working syncro's double clutching will do nothing but slow you down.

 

^ correct

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chris c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">here is a clear cut example of the need for "double clutching"...

you are driving in a vehicle @ 60 mph in 5th gear. you switch in neutral and are coasting. speed is dropping and the transmission internals are slowing, but not at the same rate. you engage the clutch and go for 4th gear. if you have a syncro's tranny is will go right into gear. if not it will grind and not go in.

the non-syncro'd tranny will require you to bump the engine to an rpm that will match road speed prior to engaging the clutch. on a tranny with working syncro's double clutching will do nothing but slow you down.</TD></TR></TABLE>

God damn what part of it can't you understand? It wears the **** out of your synchors, so soon enough you will be forced to drive like a truck driver all the time.

YOU NEED SPEED up THE INPUT SHAFT (which you can't do with a clutch in, which is driven by the engine) to the speed of the output shaft (driven by the wheels). If you don't do it and you are making a really big downshift you use your synchros to speed up the input shaft, but while you are doing that you wearing the living **** out of them. Don't argue about **** you don't know.

 

I just friggin shift and have never replaced syncros in any of my trans'. cruising or getting on it the only thing that changes is speed of shifting.
Maybe I can drive and u guys cant or I have just had great luck with the dozen cars Ive had???

 

Maybe that's why you had a dozen cars because you can't drive for ****.

Quit arguing, this is clearly explained.

 

Thats it buddy, it has been explained that there is no point in double clutcing a trans that has syncros.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by walker111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats it buddy, it has been explained that there is no point in double clutcing a trans that has syncros. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You keep telling yourself that.

In the meanwhile, I'll be replacing the synchronizers in my S4C - on which Honda released a technical service bulletin about synchronizer wear BTW . . .

 

So you guys really think that it makes that much of a difference?

To each his own, I will continue doing it the way i have been.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by walker111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just friggin shift and have never replaced syncros in any of my trans'. cruising or getting on it the only thing that changes is speed of shifting.
Maybe I can drive and u guys cant or I have just had great luck with the dozen cars Ive had???</TD></TR></TABLE>

BINGO!!!!!!! That makes two of us.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by walker111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So you guys really think that it makes that much of a difference?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It makes a significant difference.

I can even feel a huge difference through the linkage when shifting. With proper double clutching, the shifter will slide right into its gates without any resistance.

Without it, or with an improper rev match, there is a lot of resistance (as the soft brass synchro is being stressed and worn down) and the occasional grind as you try to select a lower gear. After a while of this, grinds will become more frequent as the synchro teeth are rounded off.