Titanium Brakes
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From: RIP Craig Jones
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From: Columbus, OH, USA
Re: Titanium Brakes (civicross)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicross »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anybody running them?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't really see the point. Yes they save weight compared to a steel rotor, but honestly, sometimes its not worth comprimising the function of the part to save weight. Those brakes seem to be meant for a sprint car. There are other companies offering titanium brakes for "track cars", and they're expensive. Very expensive. Not to mention that Titanium is brittle, and who knows how long these rotors would last on the track before they started cracking.
For the price of a titanium brake kit meant of cars, you could get something from Fast Brakes or Stoptech, and have enough money left over to buy spare rotors, pads, and brake fluid.
Not to mention the fact that titanium dust can be flammable in the right conditions... Thermal conductivity???
Modified by BUJonathan at 12:15 PM 12/27/2004
</TD></TR></TABLE>I don't really see the point. Yes they save weight compared to a steel rotor, but honestly, sometimes its not worth comprimising the function of the part to save weight. Those brakes seem to be meant for a sprint car. There are other companies offering titanium brakes for "track cars", and they're expensive. Very expensive. Not to mention that Titanium is brittle, and who knows how long these rotors would last on the track before they started cracking.
For the price of a titanium brake kit meant of cars, you could get something from Fast Brakes or Stoptech, and have enough money left over to buy spare rotors, pads, and brake fluid.
Not to mention the fact that titanium dust can be flammable in the right conditions... Thermal conductivity???
Modified by BUJonathan at 12:15 PM 12/27/2004
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: tq is not an option
Re: Titanium Brakes (carl_aka_carlos)
F00 THOSE ARE FAKE BLING
what you need is to get wit dis ill carbon game
ACT NOW FOR THE LOW PRICE OF ONLY 4 GRAND YOU AND YOUR CIVIC CAN BE ULTRA BLINGTASTIC YO!
what you need is to get wit dis ill carbon game
ACT NOW FOR THE LOW PRICE OF ONLY 4 GRAND YOU AND YOUR CIVIC CAN BE ULTRA BLINGTASTIC YO!
HT White Ops
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Rochester, MN, US
Re: Titanium Brakes (civicross)
Hey Ross, welcome to H-T.
FYI, most of the guys in this forum run the cheapest rotors they can find. I'm not sure if ti rotors will appeal to them much.
FYI, most of the guys in this forum run the cheapest rotors they can find. I'm not sure if ti rotors will appeal to them much.
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From: Concord, CA, USA
Re: Titanium Brakes (civicross)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicross »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea. I've been doing alot of reading and red devil makes brakes for nextel cup nascars...that use titanium brakes</TD></TR></TABLE>
And none of those were run in any of those road course. Ask any oval driver on how many times they hit the brakes in oval races.
And none of those were run in any of those road course. Ask any oval driver on how many times they hit the brakes in oval races.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Titanium Brakes (Andrie)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ask any oval driver on how many times they hit the brakes in oval races.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol, they dont use the brakes because they just have to turn left?
lol, they dont use the brakes because they just have to turn left?
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From: tq is not an option
Re: Titanium Brakes (Andrie)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And none of those were run in any of those road course. Ask any oval driver on how many times they hit the brakes in oval races.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah when the car infront of them goes into a wall @ 180 it's divine intervention that slows them.
Nascar 2004 is one of the worlds safest forms of motor racing, they would not allow Ti brake rotors if it would in any way shape or form shorten the lifespan of one of there cash cow sponsored drivers.
8000 bux for brakes is a huge expenditure, you might be able to work a deal with brembo for carbon for less or custome a performance friction or AP kit both of whom are advancing that feild quickly.
I think in this instance marketing may be overshadowing a great idea but perhaps poor execution.
In the case of the NSX owner I doubt it's gets any better than
And none of those were run in any of those road course. Ask any oval driver on how many times they hit the brakes in oval races.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah when the car infront of them goes into a wall @ 180 it's divine intervention that slows them.
Nascar 2004 is one of the worlds safest forms of motor racing, they would not allow Ti brake rotors if it would in any way shape or form shorten the lifespan of one of there cash cow sponsored drivers.
8000 bux for brakes is a huge expenditure, you might be able to work a deal with brembo for carbon for less or custome a performance friction or AP kit both of whom are advancing that feild quickly.
I think in this instance marketing may be overshadowing a great idea but perhaps poor execution.
In the case of the NSX owner I doubt it's gets any better than
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From: Columbus, OH, USA
Re: Titanium Brakes (civicross)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicross »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea. I've been doing alot of reading and red devil makes brakes for nextel cup nascars...that use titanium brakes</TD></TR></TABLE>
I thought the use of titanium was banned in NASCAR, to "keep costs down"? If the rule is true, its probably more there to keep the spirit of the series intact rather than keep costs down.
I thought the use of titanium was banned in NASCAR, to "keep costs down"? If the rule is true, its probably more there to keep the spirit of the series intact rather than keep costs down.
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From: Concord, CA, USA
Re: Titanium Brakes (sans)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Nascar 2004 is one of the worlds safest forms of motor racing, they would not allow Ti brake rotors if it would in any way shape or form shorten the lifespan of one of there cash cow sponsored drivers.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree that NASCAR had come a long way in safety.
Take a look at their brake setup when they run road races and when they run super speedway. The one they ran in super speedway are single, non vented rotors. Very light as they need the weight saving to go fast, and they don't need good brakes as they don't use them.
When they run road races, they run vented big honking AP brakes!
regarding the titanium rotors. It didn't work out on the car application. ZMI since closed their doors. As far as price, I don't think it is a big concern in pro racing. But none has proven that the titanium brakes work.
Nascar 2004 is one of the worlds safest forms of motor racing, they would not allow Ti brake rotors if it would in any way shape or form shorten the lifespan of one of there cash cow sponsored drivers.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree that NASCAR had come a long way in safety.
Take a look at their brake setup when they run road races and when they run super speedway. The one they ran in super speedway are single, non vented rotors. Very light as they need the weight saving to go fast, and they don't need good brakes as they don't use them.
When they run road races, they run vented big honking AP brakes!
regarding the titanium rotors. It didn't work out on the car application. ZMI since closed their doors. As far as price, I don't think it is a big concern in pro racing. But none has proven that the titanium brakes work.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Titanium Brakes (Andrie)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree that NASCAR had come a long way in safety. </TD></TR></TABLE>
But they still have concrete walls
(tangent)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Take a look at their brake setup when they run road races and when they run super speedway. The one they ran in super speedway are single, non vented rotors. </TD></TR></TABLE>
How many times a year do they run @ superspeedways? And when they do they are on restrictor plate motors with significantly less power. On 'regular' ovals and 'regular' engines they absolutely have to use the brakes and they get some serious abuse. 3400 lbs + 800hp + 250 laps... hmm... sounds like abuse to me
But they still have concrete walls
(tangent)<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Take a look at their brake setup when they run road races and when they run super speedway. The one they ran in super speedway are single, non vented rotors. </TD></TR></TABLE>
How many times a year do they run @ superspeedways? And when they do they are on restrictor plate motors with significantly less power. On 'regular' ovals and 'regular' engines they absolutely have to use the brakes and they get some serious abuse. 3400 lbs + 800hp + 250 laps... hmm... sounds like abuse to me
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Re: Titanium Brakes (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But they still have concrete walls (tangent)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually they don't, by 2005 almost all of the oval will be using the safer walls, in 2004 all the superspeed ways used them as well as a lot of the 1 to 1.5 mile long tracks.
But they still have concrete walls
(tangent)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually they don't, by 2005 almost all of the oval will be using the safer walls, in 2004 all the superspeed ways used them as well as a lot of the 1 to 1.5 mile long tracks.
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Titanium Brakes (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
On 'regular' ovals and 'regular' engines they absolutely have to use the brakes and they get some serious abuse. 3400 lbs + 800hp + 250 laps... hmm... sounds like abuse to me</TD></TR></TABLE>
On top of that they also need brakes to pit and avoid large pile-ups.
On 'regular' ovals and 'regular' engines they absolutely have to use the brakes and they get some serious abuse. 3400 lbs + 800hp + 250 laps... hmm... sounds like abuse to me
</TD></TR></TABLE>On top of that they also need brakes to pit and avoid large pile-ups.
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From: Jasma
Re: Titanium Brakes (RineRacing)
what do any of those things have to do with ti brakes? They can get away with smaller rotors since the brakes are used sporadically and they don't need the extra thermal capacity...no one said nothing about having no brakes at all...or did they?
*scratches head*
*scratches head*
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From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Re: Titanium Brakes (RineRacing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Red Devil Brakes »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Introducing The Fastest Brakes in the world!
Investment Cast Ceramic Coated 8740 Chromoly and Titanium 6-4 Racing Brake Rotors are the strongest Brake Rotors in the world. Having high tensile strength in the 140,000 to 160,000 range makes them almost 4 times the strength of the best racing cast iron rotors on the market. They are almost half the weight and have 25 % more continuous stopping power.
The thinner vanes are possible due to the higher tensile and yield strength, but also the fact that the insulating capabilities of the patented Ceramic Coatings keep the rotor running cooler. The heavy mass of the cast iron rotors relies on the thick vanes and the heavy cheeks to absorb the heat generated by stopping 3,500 pound race cars, but the Ceramic Coated rotor relies on the Ceramics to absorb the high heat enabling the core of the rotor to run 300 to 400 degrees cooler than a cast iron rotor.
The temperature capabilities of the Ceramics are in the 4,000-degree range and they will not gas, enabling the driver to brake harder and longer with fade free performance. With the lower running temperatures of the rotor this also helps the wheel bearings to run cooler and also lowers the temperature under the hood.
The weight of our Short Track Rotors saves approximately 35 pounds over the cast iron rotors. This is like getting 15 to 20 horsepower in the engine, not to mention helping tire wear and shock temperature in long races which enables the driver to wear down the competition in the later part of the race.
We also have rotors available for Nascar Intermediate race tracks and Super Speedways which can save anywhere from 20 to 25 pounds of rotating weight over cast iron. All of our rotors are recoatable 3 to 4 times, which makes them very cost effective in the long run.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Off the reddevilbrakes.com site.
Introducing The Fastest Brakes in the world!
Investment Cast Ceramic Coated 8740 Chromoly and Titanium 6-4 Racing Brake Rotors are the strongest Brake Rotors in the world. Having high tensile strength in the 140,000 to 160,000 range makes them almost 4 times the strength of the best racing cast iron rotors on the market. They are almost half the weight and have 25 % more continuous stopping power.
The thinner vanes are possible due to the higher tensile and yield strength, but also the fact that the insulating capabilities of the patented Ceramic Coatings keep the rotor running cooler. The heavy mass of the cast iron rotors relies on the thick vanes and the heavy cheeks to absorb the heat generated by stopping 3,500 pound race cars, but the Ceramic Coated rotor relies on the Ceramics to absorb the high heat enabling the core of the rotor to run 300 to 400 degrees cooler than a cast iron rotor.
The temperature capabilities of the Ceramics are in the 4,000-degree range and they will not gas, enabling the driver to brake harder and longer with fade free performance. With the lower running temperatures of the rotor this also helps the wheel bearings to run cooler and also lowers the temperature under the hood.
The weight of our Short Track Rotors saves approximately 35 pounds over the cast iron rotors. This is like getting 15 to 20 horsepower in the engine, not to mention helping tire wear and shock temperature in long races which enables the driver to wear down the competition in the later part of the race.
We also have rotors available for Nascar Intermediate race tracks and Super Speedways which can save anywhere from 20 to 25 pounds of rotating weight over cast iron. All of our rotors are recoatable 3 to 4 times, which makes them very cost effective in the long run.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Off the reddevilbrakes.com site.
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From: Kings Mt., NC
Re: Titanium Brakes (civicross)
A guy here in town put some of those titanium brakes on his Z06 (600 whp, BTW). I advised him not to. He said: "But they're so light!" They lasted less than 6 laps at CMP. EVERYTHING was destroyed. Pads, rotors, caliper seals, everything. $5K US. 6 laps. I repeat, [Dr evil] FIVE THOUSAND US dollars[/Dr Evil], 6 laps.
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From: Columbus, OH, USA
Re: Titanium Brakes (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But they still have concrete walls (tangent)
How many times a year do they run @ superspeedways? And when they do they are on restrictor plate motors with significantly less power. On 'regular' ovals and 'regular' engines they absolutely have to use the brakes and they get some serious abuse. 3400 lbs + 800hp + 250 laps... hmm... sounds like abuse to me</TD></TR></TABLE>
Regardless of how boring myself (and most H-A'ers) think NASCAR is... it its a well regulated and well run series. NASCAR leadership puts a lot of effort and engineering into their rules. That said, the racing, the drivers, and the cars are boring (to me).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do any of those things have to do with ti brakes? They can get away with smaller rotors since the brakes are used sporadically and they don't need the extra thermal capacity...no one said nothing about having no brakes at all...or did they?
*scratches head*</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed. There are some applications where running a titanium rotor will probably work, and save quite a few pounds in the process. On a brake-intensive road course, where we're are talking about dissipatting a large amount of energy (from comparatively heavy cars with slicks and possibly downforce), they just don't seem be the right solution.
But they still have concrete walls
(tangent)How many times a year do they run @ superspeedways? And when they do they are on restrictor plate motors with significantly less power. On 'regular' ovals and 'regular' engines they absolutely have to use the brakes and they get some serious abuse. 3400 lbs + 800hp + 250 laps... hmm... sounds like abuse to me
</TD></TR></TABLE>Regardless of how boring myself (and most H-A'ers) think NASCAR is... it its a well regulated and well run series. NASCAR leadership puts a lot of effort and engineering into their rules. That said, the racing, the drivers, and the cars are boring (to me).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do any of those things have to do with ti brakes? They can get away with smaller rotors since the brakes are used sporadically and they don't need the extra thermal capacity...no one said nothing about having no brakes at all...or did they?
*scratches head*</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed. There are some applications where running a titanium rotor will probably work, and save quite a few pounds in the process. On a brake-intensive road course, where we're are talking about dissipatting a large amount of energy (from comparatively heavy cars with slicks and possibly downforce), they just don't seem be the right solution.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Titanium Brakes (BUJonathan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BUJonathan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NASCAR leadership puts a lot of effort and engineering into their rules. </TD></TR></TABLE>
If by "engineering their rules" you mean "increasing revenue"...
If by "engineering their rules" you mean "increasing revenue"...
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From: Columbus, OH, USA
Re: Titanium Brakes (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If by "engineering their rules" you mean "increasing revenue"... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Again, regardless of how boring *I* think NASCAR is, they understand their audience well, know how to make money, and can keep both fans and drivers happy. I personally think NASCAR is the WWF of racing. But the fans love it, the teams love it, promoters love it, the racing safe, and teams are relatively competitive.
On the other hand, I love Formula 1 racing, and personally find it very technologically interesting. But their leadership and rules comittee sucks. F1 is expensive for teams, fans, and racetracks. Its to the point where its not competitive for most teams, and getting very expensive for teams to develop and field cars.
If by "engineering their rules" you mean "increasing revenue"... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Again, regardless of how boring *I* think NASCAR is, they understand their audience well, know how to make money, and can keep both fans and drivers happy. I personally think NASCAR is the WWF of racing. But the fans love it, the teams love it, promoters love it, the racing safe, and teams are relatively competitive.
On the other hand, I love Formula 1 racing, and personally find it very technologically interesting. But their leadership and rules comittee sucks. F1 is expensive for teams, fans, and racetracks. Its to the point where its not competitive for most teams, and getting very expensive for teams to develop and field cars.