which one is better? the omnipower is cheaper but the groundcontrol kit comes with a solid reputation, (from my f body buddies) and they offer this kit that moves the struts higher up to get more a arm play, not sure if that will make a difference though.

the struts i will be using is tokico illuminas, now which kit is better?

 

I've heard nothing but good stuff about GC.. I'd go with GC my friend had them on his CRX before he sold it but he was running Koni Yellows

 

I have GC Coils and Tokico Blue for my suspension and have had no problems ever. With any lowered suspension you will get a rougher ride but you easily make up for that in handling.

CRX Forum

 

Both are great systems but the GC has a solid reputation among all different kinds of cars. Whether you own a BMW, Toyota or Honda, GC's are highly regarded. They have excellent quality sleeves/collars and Eibach ERS are proven race springs. Plus GC gives you the freedom to choose your own spring rates and shocks. Omnipower is a good alternative but there are a couple of issues I have with them. 1) no freedom when it comes to the damper and it's nonadjustable. 2) the springs are generic and unproven. 3) cost is good but you can have GC's with Eibach ERS and Koni yellow adjustables for slightly more.


Modified by Reelizmpro at 8:26 PM 12/27/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93formula &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the struts i will be using is tokico illuminas, now which kit is better?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wouldn't bother with anything other than GC if you're looking for sleeves.

The Omnipower full coilover kit is of excellent quality for the money and comes highly recommended - but their sleeve kit is just a carbon copy of the Skunk2 sleeve kit. Since you already have the dampers, you're looking for sleeves, not the full coilovers; I'd go Ground Control. Better springs, better sleeves, better quality, and the freedom to choose the spring rates you want at no extra charge.

 

i wouldnt bother buying anything but a full coil over setup. I think there was a thred a few weeks ago about a guy taking GCs off his car and noticing that the bottems had flared out and cracked. Plus most people dont preload the spring becasue they want to "slam" there car so when your turning the spring lifts off the perch upseting the suspention and could possibly cause a spin. Not too safe if you ask me. Personally if you want a sleeve type coilover, just go get some ebay junk, it's all the same thing. If you want good all around suspention performance get a full coil setup omnipowers or tein basics.
edit: oh and think about it, $300 for GC + $350 for good struts = the same as a omni full coil setup... just some food for thought

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onePOINTsix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wouldnt bother buying anything but a full coil over setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think there was a thred a few weeks ago about a guy taking GCs off his car and noticing that the bottems had flared out and cracked.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've never heard of such a problem with GCs.

The thread I was reading with the pictures of flared and cracked sleeves clearly showed a Skunk2 kit. Maybe you should get your facts straight.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plus most people dont preload the spring becasue they want to "slam" there car so when your turning the spring lifts off the perch upseting the suspention and could possibly cause a spin. Not too safe if you ask me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Umm, no they don't. You've obviously never used a GC sleeve setup. You can preload the springs all you want if you order the correct length or use helper springs, but if you don't, they will still stay in place as long as the car is on the ground. The only time the springs aren't preloaded is when the car is completely off the ground - i.e. hitting a bump big enough to be considered a jump, or when you're jacking it up. I don't understand how the spring could "lift off" the perch, either, unless it has some sort of magical levitation powers.

In all of my autocross and HPDE experience, I have never had any instability caused by the made-up situation you described. Sounds like you're just repeating stories you read off the internet.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally if you want a sleeve type coilover, just go get some ebay junk, it's all the same thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Umm, no it isn't.

Again, you obviously have no experience with coilover sleeves.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want good all around suspention performance get a full coil setup omnipowers or tein basics.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Tein Basics are laughable.

The Omnipower kits have superior damping curves to low-end Tein products.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">edit: oh and think about it, $300 for GC + $350 for good struts = the same as a omni full coil setup... just some food for thought</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you're only spending $350 on dampers, you're not buying "good" enough dampers.

Does spring rate choice mean anything to you? I don't see anything other than 8k, 10k, and 12k available for the Omnipower kit. Ground Control uses Eibach ERS springs, which are available in 25 lbs-in increments. You can order just about any spring rate you want. Those people who want to specify their own rates and/or use a specific damper will prefer the GCs.

 

ok to clear some things up, i have had experence with sleve coilovers, both GC and ebay. The quality of the GC looked better but the car still rode the same with eather setup. As for preloading, the spring is susposed to be touching the upper perch in order to be preloaded. If you jack your car up and the spring isn't touching the top it's not preloaded. As for instability, dont you think if your spring came up off the perch when say your autoxing and you lift a rear tire and the spring decided to hit the side of the upper mount or caught on the top of the sleeve it will throw your balance off? Think about it, your very quickly changing the way the spring seats on one side for a split second. Also for different spring rate, call omni, he can hook you up with whatever rates you want. And for the tein basic example i was just saying that just incase he wants JDM bling. Oh and that thred, the guys said it was a name brand so i assumed it was GCs

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onePOINTsix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok to clear some things up, i have had experence with sleve coilovers, both GC and ebay. The quality of the GC looked better but the car still rode the same with eather setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ride quality is not the issue. Material quality is. GC uses Eibach ERS springs, which are top notch. Generic knockoff kits use springs from no-name manufacturers; cheap springs often sag, break, and/or lose their rate - if the rate was even close to specification to begin with.

GC's sleeves are very high quality, have a lifetime guarantee, and are made from anodized 6061-T6 aluminum.

What are generic sleeves made from? Will the manufacturer stand behind their product? Who knows . . .

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As for preloading, the spring is susposed to be touching the upper perch in order to be preloaded. If you jack your car up and the spring isn't touching the top it's not preloaded.</TD></TR></TABLE>
As I said, preload can be achieved by using the proper length spring. Eibach ERS come in several different lengths.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As for instability, dont you think if your spring came up off the perch when say your autoxing and you lift a rear tire and the spring decided to hit the side of the upper mount or caught on the top of the sleeve it will throw your balance off? Think about it, your very quickly changing the way the spring seats on one side for a split second.</TD></TR></TABLE>
But this doesn't happen.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also for different spring rate, call omni, he can hook you up with whatever rates you want. And for the tein basic example i was just saying that just incase he wants JDM bling.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's good to hear then. So far, Omnipower has proven to have good products, excellent value for the money, and good customer service. I'd choose the Omnipower full coilover kit any day over Tein's crappy low-end garbage.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh and that thred, the guys said it was a name brand so i assumed it was GCs</TD></TR></TABLE>
It was definitely Skunk2 or a knockoff of the Skunk2 kit. The kit pictured had a silver sleeve, and the perch was made up of two silver rings that lock together with spanner wrenches. GC uses red sleeves, with a single gold ring for the perch that locks using an allen-head set screw.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1086296

 

thanks for all the replies guys, does anyone know if that strut relocation thing groundcontrol sells is worth it? it moves the upper strut mount up 24mm for more suspension travel.

http://www.ground-control-stor.../CA=5

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93formula &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for all the replies guys, does anyone know if that strut relocation thing groundcontrol sells is worth it? it moves the upper strut mount up 24mm for more suspension travel.

http://www.ground-control-stor.../CA=5</TD></TR></TABLE>
Very useful if you intend to ride around at a very low ride height with soft spring rates and dampers that are the same length as stock. '88-91 Civics need all of the suspension travel they can get, especially when lowered.

I have been meaning to order a pair of them for the front of my car for a while, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I want a little more travel up there, but can't afford to have my Konis shortened yet. I'm also afraid of bottoming out the dampers and damaging them.

 

thanks for the reply!

 

I will swear by Koni/GC/Eibach until I have reason not too. I am on my third vehicle with Ground Controls. The flexibility is second to none. The quality is second to none. The Tokico Illumina's are a good shock. I would rate it in between an AGX and a Koni Yellow. The Illumina's would be fine to handle up to the 400-500lb range. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

On my latest car I am running the GC's with 400F/500R spring rates with 7 x 2.5 springs front and 6 x 2.5 springs rear. The fronts are revalved and shortened. We'll see how these fair before I decide if I need a little extra travel still up front. If so I'll be sure to use the GC top hats.

 

wow thanks, im really feeling confident with my choich on the ground controls then, what rates would you recommend for my 88? 400f/500r like yours?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93formula &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow thanks, im really feeling confident with my choich on the ground controls then, what rates would you recommend for my 88? 400f/500r like yours?</TD></TR></TABLE>

What are you HONEST plans with the car? If it's a daily driver just get off the shelf rates.

My car is not tagged/insured and does not see the road. I also run a CRX HF front sway and ST 22mm adjustable rear full stiff with a fairly aggressive alignment. The car is fairly firm, and will snap oversteer pretty easily with a lift off the throttle. Probably a pretty good set-up for an STS Auto-X car and probably still "liveable" for a daily driver.

Eventually I plan on switching to Koni 3011's and probably 600-700F/800-900R.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Hammond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What are you HONEST plans with the car? If it's a daily driver just get off the shelf rates.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I'd agree. GC's off-the-shelf rates are 350f/250r, and that should be more than enough for a daily driver. Illuminas will work well in that range, too.

I'm running 500f/600r on my autocross/HPDE car, and it's rather uncomfortable for just driving around on the street. I drove it to work (40 min. one way) every day for almost a month this past summer, and after the first week I was ready to rip my own hair out. It wouldn't be so bad if the roads around here were California-smooth . . .

 

the car will always be a street car so id want it streetable, id just want the best handling i could get out of it. AX 4-5 times a year and track 2-3 times a year.

im building up a d16 minime with turbo.

 

thanks a lot, i guess ill go with the shelf rates then.

 

I run GC with spring rates of 400F/600R and runing Koni yellows, the only bad thing is cant lower my car really because the front shocks will bottom out bad. The only thing that im mad about my Koni yellows is that i blew them already and i have had them in since 4-25-04, not even a year yet and they are blowen.
MIKE

 

Omnipower = good chit for cheap. dont see how u can beat that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by milruner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I run GC with spring rates of 400F/600R and runing Koni yellows, the only bad thing is cant lower my car really because the front shocks will bottom out bad. The only thing that im mad about my Koni yellows is that i blew them already and i have had them in since 4-25-04, not even a year yet and they are blowen.
MIKE</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why not run higher spring rates in the front like GC recommends?

 

First, this is a very informative thread.
Thanks for the info from all who supplied advice and experiences, and good question from the creator of the thread.
I have GC's with KYB's on the 91 CRX HF I recently bought and am still getting used to them, but so far they are great-handling and stiff. The previous owner had the car lowered quite a bit.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...
I'm running 500f/600r on my autocross/HPDE car, and it's rather uncomfortable for just driving around on the street. I drove it to work (40 min. one way) every day for almost a month this past summer, and after the first week I was ready to rip my own hair out. It wouldn't be so bad if the roads around here were California-smooth . . .</TD></TR></TABLE>

This comment made me laugh!
California is a BIG state! I have only been to maybe 10% of the southern 30% of the state, but I can tell you that not all the roads are baby-butt-smooth. Yes, the lack of freezing weather (in southern, near sea-level cali) helps, but you would be surprised to see what water alone can do. Remember all that flooding you saw on TV?
I drove the "new-to-me" HF from LA south on I-5 and the uneven seams/bumps in the pavement that are barely noticeable in my stock-suspension 90 Civic DX hatch were like speed bumps!
Anyway, I like good handling and the CRX will not be a daily driver, but I wonder if I can find a happy medium where the car handles very well and the reflective dots in the road are not felt quite so much.
Any suggestions?