South beach? Hollywood? Atkins?

Corner weighted/weighed the car tonight and I'm about 100lbs over minimum weight(with driver, expected gas level calculated in) for H2.. Any suggestions on good places to shave some weight?

I figure I need a lighter battery at some point, which could take a nice chunk out of that, but otherwise I'm not really sure what else I can take out that I already haven't.. Heater core is in, but it's staying.. Interior is totally out except the dash, race seat, harnesses, etc.. aside from the battery, most things that can be taken out of the engine bay have been pulled(a/c and lines, power steering pump and lines, etc)..

I myself don't have much to trim off either, I'm fairly lean..

 

Did you gut the dash? If it's a full dash it's fairly heavy, I gutted mine and did a little writeup on it: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=892008

 

In addition to the parts you mentioned, I found a lot of weight in the exhaust and the sunroof. If this is an H2 ITR the sunroof doesn't help you but if you're running a full length exhaust you can shave some weight there. Is your cage overbuilt? There are cars that have shot themselves in the foot for minimum weight simply by overbuilding the cage with either extraneous bars or heavier-than-necessary materials (I'm guilty of this).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 909edge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you gut the dash? If it's a full dash it's fairly heavy</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you remove that huge-*** 20 lb floor beam located under the rear seat?
Gut driver door, if you have NASCAR style driver side tubes.
Remove both OEM driver side door beams if same as above.
Remove passenger side glass.
Remove both OEM pass side door tubes IF you have two cage door tubes on pass side.
Remove un-used OEM exhaust hangars.
Remove all un used wiring.
Light wheels?

Modified by Track rat at 5:05 AM 12/22/2004


Modified by Track rat at 5:07 AM 12/22/2004

 

Remember to stay within the rules of HC.

I don't think we can do smaller battery.

With a half tank of gas + myself (155lbs) = approx. 2580lbs. Minimum weight is 2575.

How much gas was in your car when you weighed it?
How much do you weigh?

 

If he's 10lbs more then you Dave I would be shocked... Marks rather skinny.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Did you remove that huge-*** 20 lb floor beam located under the rear seat?
Remove un-used OEM exhaust hangars.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not sure how those would be legal.

Is the passenger airbag removed, or just disabled?

Is the tar removed from under the dash (and not just the passenger area floor)?
Is the tar removed from the underside of the car?

What wheels are you running? What tires?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not sure how those would be legal.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Absolutely legal in HC

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Absolutely legal in HC</TD></TR></TABLE>

Looking at the rules, it never says anything about the floor beam.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
e) All interior trim pieces such as: interior panels, seats, carpet, headliner, center console and sound deadening may be removed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Or exhaust hangers.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">o) Any exhaust header and exhaust system may be used. All emission related devices may be removed or disabled. Catalytic converters may be removed (note: some facilities have rules governing sound limits.
Vehicles must fall within these limits to be allowed to compete).
p) Fasteners may be replaced with items performing the exact function.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nothing in the body section allows unused hangers to be removed.

 

I'll try to answer all the questions at once..

909edge, the dash is gutted, with the exception of removing the heater core/blower and a couple small pieces of plastic..

travis, it's an H2 ITR so no sunroof.. I do have a full length exhaust, but it's one of the lightest out there(Buddy Club Spec 3).. the cage is DOM, so it's a little heavier than it could've been, but there aren't any extraneous bars really..

track rat, the floor beam is out.. driver door gutted, but the cross bars are still there.. passenger glass is still there(I thought I had to retain it per HC rules, since I can't gut the door without NASCAR bars on that side too).. extra wiring is all removed.. didn't think about exhaust hangars.. i'm interested to see where the discussion on that ends up..

davidnyc, we can't do a smaller battery? well, i'm really glad I didn't go buy one now.. that surprises me though.. I thought we could run hawkers or something of the like.. full tank of gas(82 lbs) + me(175 lbs) = 2775 total weight.. that's where I got that I was about 100lbs over..

crack monkey, the PS airbag is out as well.. there is no tar inside the car at all.. the underside is a different story though.. could i chip that off and then just paint it or something to prevent rust? wheels = 15x7 kosei k1's with victoracers..

---------

definitely a few things there that i hadn't considered, like the tar on the underside of the car.. there's gotta be something else I can do.. i'm actually kinda surprised how much lighter david's car is.. I've seen his a few times and it isn't much different, from what I could see, IIRC..

 

The stuff on the underside of my GS-R isn't very thick. I'd be surprised if you'd lose much weight stripping that stuff off, especially given what a messy and hateful job that will be.

There is a lot of weight to be found/removed in cage design.

Try a different set of scales?

 

Not sure the weight but are you running the fender liners and any of their accompanying hardware? Also, I am sure the exhaust you have is light for its length but I have to assume that going to a turndown after the driver would shave several pounds (just weighed mine - from header back, turn down from two inline bullets w/ hangers weighs 16.5lbs. total). Also, from memory, the Koseis are pretty light but I was under the impression Victos were very much not (??). But at the end of the day, if you can shave 20+ lbs. off the exhaust and if you look at the fuel level coming off the track (as near to empty you can run pre cutout) and get rid of the cooling fans & fan shrouds & motors & etc ..., I'd bet you will be just fine.

 

Hangars for the exhaust system perform no other function but supporting the exhaust system, therefore if the exhaust system legally goes, so do the associated fasteners. Monkey, did you leave the rubber hangars there? By your interpretation of this rule, you should. . For the 2lbs of weight saved...this may not be worth the argument. I got to min weight without chopping them off, but it is on my list of things to do when I get motivated to get under there with a cut-off wheel.

As for the pass door. Read HC rules 4.10 carefully. You can remove passenger door glass with no other provisions. Passenger door intrusion beams can be removed if you use (2) tubes in the passenger door opening, and they need not be NASCAR style. X is acceptable. (those hi-strength OEM door beams are thick and heavy!)

The floor beam goes because it interfered with proper cage installation. It was right in the path of my main hoop floor pads, the main hoop diagonal, my seat cradle and the lower cross tube. You could also argue that the beam is there to support the "B" pillar which in turn supports the door intrusion beams...which may be removed if you follow the required provisions.





Modified by Track rat at 10:53 AM 12/22/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Monkey, did you leave the rubber hangars there? By your interpretation of this rule, you should. . </TD></TR></TABLE>

No, those are fasteners. Fasteners are open/free/removable.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The floor beam goes because it interfered with proper cage installation. It was right in the path of my main hoop floor pads, the main hoop diagonal, my seat cradle and the lower cross tube. You could also argue that the beam is there to support the "B" pillar which in turn supports the door intrusion beams...which may be removed if you follow the required provisions.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll buy the "in the way argument". But he already has a cage in the car - so if it wasn't in the way for his cage, he's stuck with it.

Given the logic of you last sentence, I could conceivably remove the roof and side panels, since they are only there to support the moon-roof.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try a different set of scales?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Definitely something I'm going to try before I go hacking all kinds of stuff apart.. I would wager it's not far off though..

phat-S, the BC weighs 15-20 lbs total, IIRC.. wouldn't running a turndown be quite a bit louder and potentially cause problems with dB levels? if not, then that exhaust can go! I should probably look into that I guess.. and yeah, the fenderliners are actually there now that I think about it.. I think I had some concern about water getting in without them..? is that unfounded?

track rat, I do in fact have an X on that side, so that may be the next step.. I've already fabbed an acrylic blocker for the driver's side window.. wouldn't be hard to make a 2nd one for the passenger side! although I would probably worry about water intrusion when towing..

crack monkey, the floor beam was out of my car when I got the shell and we built the cage pretty much right where it would connect on the b-pillars.. so I think it falls into the "in the way" thing.. I haven't seen an HC ITR with it that I can remember(ed, david, jason, etc)..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
phat-S, the BC weighs 15-20 lbs total, IIRC.. wouldn't running a turndown be quite a bit louder and potentially cause problems with dB levels? if not, then that exhaust can go! I should probably look into that I guess.. and yeah, the fenderliners are actually there now that I think about it.. I think I had some concern about water getting in without them..? is that unfounded?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Check that number - I did a quick search (and you guys know Buddy Club products much better than I) but it looks like they are saying the "cat back" is 14lbs. for the Stage III one. I am talking from the collector back.

Quite a bit?? I don't know what kind of numbers you are putting out but we didn't hit 100 dB w/ the double cans on there (but that was only one session). Typically on my car, a new Dynomax would come in around 100-101 dB, with age, it crept up towards 103 dB (but there are a TON of variables in there in addition to that). I am absolutely not worried w/ the current configuration on sound however.

[the water thing] The guys that I know that have concern for that will usually fit a small section of sheet aluminum on the right side front behind w/ the air intake (used to) sit. Not sure on your Type R and don't want to give you "nah don't worry about it"'s if you should - ask around and see what other folks say. Its just a suggestion.

Oh and do note what I am saying about fuel - you will NEVER come off the track w/ a full tank so don't worry about that. And if you ever do ... driver harder

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">phat-S, the BC weighs 15-20 lbs total, IIRC.. wouldn't running a turndown be quite a bit louder and potentially cause problems with dB levels? if not, then that exhaust can go! </TD></TR></TABLE>

The ITR comes close to, and often breaks, most track sounds limits when unmuffled. You'll need something under there to keep it quiet. But, you should be able to fit some sort of bullet muffler close to the header merge and do the turndown shortly after the driver. Make the turndown adjustable - then if you get close to the sound limit, you can try pointing it in a different direction.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I should probably look into that I guess.. and yeah, the fenderliners are actually there now that I think about it.. I think I had some concern about water getting in without them..? is that unfounded?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No worries there that I am aware of (certainly not for a track car). I *think* the ITR has an enclosed metal fender, so there really isn't anywhere for water to go (maybe onto to axle?).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The ITR comes close to, and often breaks, most track sounds limits when unmuffled. You'll need something under there to keep it quiet. But, you should be able to fit some sort of bullet muffler close to the header merge and do the turndown shortly after the driver. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think this is true for most cars.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the whole "adjustable" turn down/out/over - seems like you are adding complexity and the LAST thing you need is your adjustable pieces coming apart and going under a rear tire while cornering (maybe just a huge fear of mine). I actually like the idea of using sound proofing all around the turndown on the underside of the car and pointing it straight down (but I never did this).

 

I'm surprised that you are having trouble getting to min weight. In my H2 ITR, I have to start with a full tank of gas to make min weight after race/qual. The car itself is ~2300. I'm a big guy too ... 6-4, 240lbs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No, those are fasteners. Fasteners are open/free/removable.

Given the logic of you last sentence, I could conceivably remove the roof and side panels, since they are only there to support the moon-roof. </TD></TR></TABLE>



Hangar... steel or rubber = fastener...Off it comes! .

No roof?, no side panels?...That's worth another 40 lbs!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Did you remove that huge-*** 20 lb floor beam located under the rear seat?</TD></TR></TABLE>

BTW, if any1 has one of these near Atlanta GA they want to give me, please IM.

Thanks ...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW, if any1 has one of these near Atlanta GA they want to give me, please IM.
Thanks ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you don't mind me asking... what the heck would you want one for?? Boat anchor?

 

if your thinking of swapping the muffler check these out, they do very well for noise abatement and they are supa light weight y0!



http://www.coastfab.com/ultralights.html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

BTW, if any1 has one of these near Atlanta GA they want to give me, please IM.

Thanks ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

This would not be legal for you to put in your car for additional weight in lieu of ballast - you know that right?

 

I got my H2 ITR down to 2575lb with driver and fuel at the end of a session.

I'm about 200lbs with gear....so the car was around 2375lb.

Since I was the only racer in H2 that races regularly....

I decided to move into H1, since then I've gotten another 100lbs out...there is still another maybe 60lbs of glass with a CF hatch....

How much is 60lbs worth??? $1000???

I might be able to run H1 at slightly over 2400lbs.....

Paul


Modified by PaulB at 11:44 PM 12/23/2004