Well, to make a long story short I've been disappointed with the spec C's after dropping them in. I had no choice as one of my stock cams broke, so I threw these in hoping they'd at least make a little power even on the "low compression" stock usdm itr motor.

Link to "broken stock itr cam" thread:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1027001

Well after street tuning and a baseline a week ago on the street tuning, they made 179.99 whp and the tq was low..... I guess the loss in dynamic compression really hurt the power output.

Today we went back to try and clean up the crazy tq curve - it was better after street tuning, but still quite rough in the midrange. AND I was getting a crazy bucking under partial throttle between 3500-5200 rpm in 5th gear... so highway driving was becoming annoying as ****.

I pull the valve cover to play with the cam gears a bit (I don't like to run a cut valve cover), and what do I find?



Yes, you are correct: MY EXHAUST CAM HAS SLIPPED AND RETARDED TO THE MAXIMUM POSSIBLE!!! -20 degrees!

Soooooo..... I put it back to 0 and now understand why my idle was **** after a couple days of installing the cams and not right away. It must've slipped sometime after I installed them. At first it idled fine. NOW I UNDERSTAND. ALL THE TUNING I THOUGHT I WAS DOING AT 0, 0 was actually at 0, -20!!!!!

I was afraid to go more than -3deg on the exhaust cam and was about to try -2deg, but it was already at -20 before I had a chance to touch it!!

So we get it on the dyno anyway... it appears to idle fine with a map similar to austin's stock itr cams map. THANKS DSR!!!

We leave the cam gears at 0, 0 and start playing with fuel - then timing.

The car ends up making about 10whp more than it was peak and gains everywhere - even on the low to midrange. We tried about 10 different vtec crossovers and it liked either 5600 or 6800... the latter offered more midrange so we left it there.

We were trying to see how hard it would die off after 8000 rpms, so we kept raising the rev limiter from 9000 to 9200 and then to 9500..... it didn't die off too hard and on an upshift would leave me in a good portion of the powerband so we left it as is.

I even took a quick vid with the digicam of one of the latter runs (3rd gear):

http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D
(right click and save target as)



In the video, you can see how far off the stock tach is at high rpms - it showed 10k rpm indicated.....

Next time we'll go back and play with the cam gears. It made 186whp but the tq was low... I *think* we can get 190whp+ out of the car as it stands.

Thoughts?

Special thanks to William (typer76) and to Charles @ http://www.mainstreamperformance.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thoughts?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You need gas. And airbags.



Just kidding Ken, sounds sweet. Nice find on the cam gear slip. How are you going to prevent that from happening again?

 

I'd like to see a plot, power delivery seems very smooth. I can't even tell where your VTEC x-over is, 6800 in the video?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris93Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd like to see a plot, power delivery seems very smooth. I can't even tell where your VTEC x-over is, 6800 in the video?</TD></TR></TABLE>yea that sounds right...very smoooth changeover....I LIKE

 

WTH Ken? I think j00 need to stop working on your own car...

 

holy ****.. you buried that ******* rpm needle.... hotness

dont know if i like the sound of that exhuast.

 

Lucky you did not bend any valves!
Where's the chart?

 

That's horrible to hear that it slipped that much. I don't trust cam gears with no lock mechanism. I have a set of these: http://www.stcorsa.com/product...e.htm check them out. They hold the only patent that I know if with a locking screw. They are very adjustable and look nice. They are probably half the price of those Toda's. Well done spotting the slip. Hope nothing is damaged.

**In your picture is that metal shavings I see? On the rim, just on the inside....like lower left part of the cam gear? Yikes!

Aloha,
Brandon

 

What other mods are on your ARRRRR?

 

so whats the tq?

dyno plot would help.

 

dyno graph please... anyone reving to 9500 needs to show off the pornography

 

vtec for the pull on video was set at 6200 iirc... no hesitation and very little difference in sound - it just seems to spit a little fire and keep climbing hard up the rpms.....!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lucky you did not bend any valves!
Where's the chart? </TD></TR></TABLE>


It idles fine, but I'm not certain that I didn't bend any valves... the tq is rather low and I don't know why..... hopefully just b/c of the lowered dynamic compression?

Anyway, here's the plot:



RUN 77 (in red) = old file from dyno day and street tuned at 0int, -20exh for a/f only - no timing changes to the map.

RUN 13 (in blue) = first baseline run of the day with cam gears at 0,0.

RUN 39 (in green) = last pull made today with fuel and timing changes.

Look how I can shift at 9500 and fall back to 7500 rpms!

Also, currently I've got the fuel pegged at 13:1 flat from 7200 to 9500... there may be more power to be had by going with 13.5:1 or so... or possibly 12.5:1... we'll see when we go back to the dyno and play with the cam gears.

Thanks again to Wiliam (typer76)!
He did all the tuning with some nonsensical finger pointing and banter from yours truly.

Also, thanks again to Charles @ http://www.mainstreamperformance.com - awesome people and great dynojet. VERY reasonably priced!

The setup:
greddy short ram
hytech header
2.5" mandrel bent exhaust exiting behind passenger's door
toda spec C camshafts
toda valve spring set
toda cam gears
portflow Ti retainers
hondata s200
hondata IM gasket (RACE install)
RC 310cc saturated injectors
Power Enterprise timing belt
usdm itr longblock (never separated from the head)
usdm itr tranny with ATS LSD and ATS 4.9 final drive

I got a chance to wind out 3rd and 4th gear today... w0w o_O it feels crazy to shift at 10k indicated and fall back to 7800 indicated and wind it out some more.....!

 

fuggin' Gangstuh....getting me all excited cause i have the same setup as you

different valvetrain, intake, injectors (440), and Compression (12.4:1)
looking for fuel cut around the same range

 

Kenny, we need to get up when i come through atl and talk about some cams and ****, i need help with my setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HypeR1004 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">fuggin' Gangstuh....getting me all excited cause i have the same setup as you

different valvetrain, intake, injectors (440), and Compression (12.4:1)
looking for fuel cut around the same range</TD></TR></TABLE>


.....I'm very interested in seeing what you end up with after tuning!

 

good setup

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carbing’ed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good setup </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not with those numbers.

 

nice...i like to hear a motor sing to 10k...

 

3rd gear goes up to 93-95mph ?
Did I see right?

<FONT COLOR="red">!Yikes!</FONT>

 

Enjoy those Spec C's, they are a blast once they are dialed in.

Jason
-who sometimes misses the C's

 

damnnn that's nuts..

you raised the rev limiter with hondata?

 

i got 183 whp sae corrected with 128tq on the dynojet and this was just with bolt ons on stock cams. u have spec c's. u should be around 195 to 200 whp and 135 to 140tq in my opinion

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danny98r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i got 183 whp sae corrected with 128tq on the dynojet and this was just with bolt ons on stock cams. u have spec c's. u should be around 195 to 200 whp and 135 to 140tq in my opinion </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, but C's like a lot more compression. He's using C's on a stock block (due to necessity) so the numbers are pretty much where they should be.

Brian

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danny98r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i got 183 whp sae corrected with 128tq on the dynojet and this was just with bolt ons on stock cams. u have spec c's. u should be around 195 to 200 whp and 135 to 140tq in my opinion </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, he had around 190hp and 130ft/lb torque (same Dynojet) with stock cams and bolt ons - just hasn't sorted out the new setup yet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> w0w o_O it feels crazy to shift at 10k indicated and fall back to 7800 indicated and wind it out some more.....! </TD></TR></TABLE>

hehe, nice! You need a spOOm cluster.