I know we've had a few discussions about this, but bear with me for a second...

OK, so I'm looking to replace the oem LSD in my Type R. Options are as follows:

1) Quaife torsen, better than the oem diff but still a 1-way. Heavy.

2) Clutch-type LSD. 1.5 or 2-way. Lighter, but more maintenance.

I am not worried about the maint. issues of the clutch types because the car never sees the road anymore, except for late nights when I'm canyon carving with the AE86 club (joking).

However, with the 1.5 and 2-way diffs, do you think it changes the handling dynamics of a FF car (front wheel drive, front engine for those who are JDM impared)? I don't want to develop some weird corner push that might be associated with a 2-way diff, and I'm not sure I'm liking the way the 2-way behaves under deacceleration (all theory as I have never driven a FF car with a 2-way in it).

Here's a decent primer on LSD's.

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20a...1.htm


Any thoughts from folks who have driven the different type of LSDs in a FF car?

 

go ATS d20. you will not be dissapointed. flat out awesome for our fwd apps. the car goes where you point it. ask tunes12 about my car. he is totally sold after nationals. the only drawback is cost. it does require maintainence, and to keep it in tip top shape even more frequent maintainence.

 

Does anyone actually drive use a 2-way in a FWD car? I know Mugen sells them like that, but I thought everyone changed them to 1.5 before using?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does anyone actually drive use a 2-way in a FWD car? I know Mugen sells them like that, but I thought everyone changed them to 1.5 before using?</TD></TR></TABLE>

2 way would be more like a spool. short of a drag car, they would not work for us.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

2 way would be more like a spool. short of a drag car, they would not work for us. </TD></TR></TABLE>

more like a spool? im confused.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marshun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

more like a spool? im confused.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Read the link I posted above.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">go ATS d20. you will not be dissapointed. flat out awesome for our fwd apps. the car goes where you point it. ask tunes12 about my car. he is totally sold after nationals. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The ATS is AWESOME. Car goes right where you want it. It allows you to get on the gas WAY earlier and feels like it sucks you in to the corner instead of pushing when you get on the gas. AWESOME. I had money to spend to put a diff. in my car, no doubt it would be the ATS. And maintenance can't be THAT bad, Rodney does it himself

 

You know, not too long ago we did a piece on diffs for front-drive cars. If you don't have that issue, let me know and I'll see if I can hook you up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tunes12 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It allows you to get on the gas WAY earlier and feels like it sucks you in to the corner instead of pushing when you get on the gas. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just out of curiosity, have you driven a similar car with a Quaife?

That exact quote could have been taken out of my mouth after driving a car with the Quaife.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just out of curiosity, have you driven a similar car with a Quaife?

That exact quote could have been taken out of my mouth after driving a car with the Quaife.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am wondering myself that as well. Is it worth the extra $125 for the Mugen over the Quaife? Then I've got to ask is is worth an extra $270 for a Quiafe over say an OPM Autosport version? Which I am strongly considering for a first go around.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> OK, so I'm looking to replace the oem LSD in my Type R. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Are there some relaibility issues with the OEM Torsen-type ITR LSD, or are you just looking for more speed, advantage, etc.?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Are there some relaibility issues with the OEM Torsen-type ITR LSD, or are you just looking for more speed, advantage, etc.?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The oem diff is rock solid, but it isn't a race piece. I still get inside wheelspin coming out of a corner until the oem diff decides to hook up.

While it is much better than an open diff for sure, it is still lacking in a few areas.


And what month of Grassroots was the front wheel drive LSD article in? Surprised I did not see it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The oem diff is rock solid, but it isn't a race piece. I still get inside wheelspin coming out of a corner until the oem diff decides to hook up. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Oh... OK, thanks.

 

Dunno if this will help you any... But i'm running a Mugen in a d-series Si tranny. I have no idea whether it is setup as a 2-way or a 1.5-way. I bought it from a guy who was using it in a road-race car and he said it was adjusted to 65%. Here are a few impressions after one season of auto-x. Keep in mind the engine is just a tired old 170k mile D15B2 with a MPFI conversion (dynoe'd at ~90whp, lol, not too bad for what it is actually)

-This LSD is super aggressive, especially in low-speed, 1st gear full power maneuvers. You really have to hang on to the steering wheel and anticipate otherwise the diff will drive you instead of the other way around. On a couple of occasions i literally missed the next gate because the diff pulled so hard one way while i was trying to go the other. Other times, in a successive series of 1st gear transition maneuvers with frequent power on/off, i totally lost it as the diff was pulling the car one way while i was trying to go the other and couldn't straighten the wheel fast enough to keep up. At one point I just let go off the gas and hands of the steering to let things settle down a bit. Now, this only happened in the rare few times i used 1st gear. None of this ever happened in 2nd gear, probably because the engine just doesnt have enough ***** for that...

-As I said, i have no idea if the diff is 2-way or 1.5. But I noticed what feels like a very mild lock-up of the inside wheel on corner entry. Barely noticeable on race tires but it is especially noticeable on the rare occasion I drive the car on the street with crappy 4-season tires. You can actually hear the inside wheel lock-up and squeal a bit on slow speed corner entry, say at 6/10ths.

-Overall, the Mugen is a pretty amazing piece, once you adapt to it and learn to predict how it will behave under different situations. So as long as you dont overdrive the friction circle trying to corner at 10/10ths and accelerate at 100%, it is almost impossible to induce wheelspin. Now, I do suspect that will change once you throw a lot more power at it.

I just bought an all-motor 170-180whp d-series engine with another Mugen diff as part of the package. In the process of being installed right now. So we will see how it behaves with double the power next season.

BTW, if anyone is interested in an 89Si tranny with a Mugen LSD, make me an offer... [/plug]

 

what issue GRM was it? hmm, the nasa membership still gets GRM right? where the heck are mine... hmm...

 

Have used Mugen, OPM, & Quaife type differentials as well as spools. The ITR differential is basically a Quaife.

The OPM differential was the least impressive, but this was from a car we ran about 8 years ago so the current ones may be better.

You definitely don't want anything that is locked up on decel if you're doing anything that requires handling.

My favorite is the Quaife. The clutch-type ones seem to have a "dead spot" before the clutches hook up, and you have to be careful what gear oils to use so that they don't screw the clutches up.

No differential is a cure-all. If you have enough horsepower, you are going to spin wheels to matter what if you mash the gas pedal too fast. Ditto if your suspension set up is off (too soft a suspension or too much rebound on the shocks).

 

May 2004 (Volume 21, Number 3) issue of GRM "FWD differential secrets: Put the power down"...

Vracer111, who needs to install his T-2 Torsen differential when upgrading to a 3.42 final drive gear - because an open differential V-6 camaro doesn't hook up to good in the corners with 245/50-16 Yokohama ES-100's. With 275/40-17 Nitto NT-555RII's it's a different story though....

 

I'd really like to drive the Quaife and the ATS back-to-back. Any rodney-thoughts on that?

Quaife vs. ITR, my car had the Quaife in it back when it was on Eibach pro-kits, which aren't really any stiffer than stock ITR springs. It put down the power (JRSC) on Victoracers as well as or better than a DS ITR on Hoosiers. I think there must be more accel lockup in the Quaife, I'd like to know how much.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just out of curiosity, have you driven a similar car with a Quaife?

That exact quote could have been taken out of my mouth after driving a car with the Quaife.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, I haven't. Just an oem itr and the ATS.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just out of curiosity, have you driven a similar car with a Quaife?

That exact quote could have been taken out of my mouth after driving a car with the Quaife.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. I drove a friend's Civic way back in the day with a Quaife and fell in love with it. It's one of the main reasons I went with an S15 Spec R torsen diff for my recent heap. I've got some limited driving impressions on it, and it seems that it feels just as good when you're driving the RIGHT wheels too.

 

There was a good discussion about the different kinds of FWD differentials and diffs in general in one of those obx lsd threads, let me see if I can dig it up. Also, I found this: http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=1340 I think Roger Hewson used to work for Quaife USA for a while. . .

Here: https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=7

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It put down the power (JRSC) on Victoracers as well as or better than a DS ITR on Hoosiers. I think there must be more accel lockup in the Quaife, I'd like to know how much. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't Kumhos typically have better longitudinal accel than Hoosiers, but Hoosiers turns better?

 

jsi

I may be interested. Hit me up.

Thanks
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW, if anyone is interested in an 89Si tranny with a Mugen LSD, make me an offer... [/plug]</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I still get inside wheelspin coming out of a corner until the oem diff decides to hook up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

how do you figure? what type of corner are you taking?

the only issue I have with the oem piece is under slim to no torque loads making crazy turns into parking lots.
other than that it works without issue.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

how do you figure? what type of corner are you taking?</TD></TR></TABLE>

What about Turn 11 at BeaverRun. If I remember correctly it's a slow corner going uphill into turn 12. It seemed the ITR suffered from lots of understeer and wheelspin as the OEM torsen diff tries get the wheels to grip on the corner exit.

I rode in Blue R's and Trey's ITR at Expo 3.