300bhp NA from a JDM Vtec Lude. Possible?
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From: Kent, UK
300bhp NA from a JDM Vtec Lude. Possible?
Ive been in touch with a company based in the UK that specialise in Honda servicing and tuning. I have around £6000 to spend on engine mods and I've been told that i will get a figure around 300bhp NA for that. I might be being stupid, but I though the JUN prelude was only 300bhp. Can anyone help me out at all? I just dotn want to get ripped off.
Chris
Chris
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From: East Village, NYC
Re: 300bhp NA from a JDM Vtec Lude. Possible? (black_rude_lude)
bhp? like at the wheels?
300 flywheel is unlikely, at the wheels ha no one has seen it yet.
Why don't you list the modifications they plan to do.
300 flywheel is unlikely, at the wheels ha no one has seen it yet.
Why don't you list the modifications they plan to do.
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From: Sportscar Heaven, England
300 is only possible NA on a H22a if the engine is de-stroked and de-bore'd to 2litre (1998cc) like the mugen F3 engine, they produce 210hp @ 8000rpm and produce just over 300hp at 13,000rpm on 116oct racing fuel. (read it on an F3 site somwhere, I'll try find the link)
It is possible, just expensive. Especially custom timing belts!
It is possible, just expensive. Especially custom timing belts!
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From: New Zealand/ Land of JDM
Re: 300bhp NA from a JDM Vtec Lude. Possible? (satan_srv)
ud have to pretty much hav to do every posible NA modification to ur engine..and tune it well
i have 200whp with just bolt ons, i believe the JUN prelude got 270ps
satan as 216whp
theres a 12sec h22a(stroked and bored to 2.44l) accord with 247whp and will get more with ITBs and bigger cams they reckon
depends how far u want to go
i have 200whp with just bolt ons, i believe the JUN prelude got 270ps
satan as 216whp
theres a 12sec h22a(stroked and bored to 2.44l) accord with 247whp and will get more with ITBs and bigger cams they reckon
depends how far u want to go
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From: Manchester, UK
Re: 300bhp NA from a JDM Vtec Lude. Possible? (americ_ian)
Chris, which company was it in the UK? Did they actually say what they would do, or did they just tell you it would be 300hp in exchange for £6000?
To be honest, I think it's very very doubtful that a UK tuner will be able to extract 300hp from a n/a prelude.
To be honest, I think it's very very doubtful that a UK tuner will be able to extract 300hp from a n/a prelude.
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
keep in mind original poster said 300 Bhp...
300bhp isn't easy, but it's possible. that's what, 255 whp?
it should cost in the neighborhood 6000 pounds, but i'm not sure i entirely trust that particular shop to be able to put it together and install it and tune it well enough.
300bhp isn't easy, but it's possible. that's what, 255 whp?
it should cost in the neighborhood 6000 pounds, but i'm not sure i entirely trust that particular shop to be able to put it together and install it and tune it well enough.
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From: Sportscar Heaven, England
the assembly, break-in & tuning are the most critical parts of the process; if the shop messed either of the 3 up then it wouldn't last very long.
If you do decide to tune it up and build it just make sure the company knows what they're doing. I heard so many horror stories where the builder/tuner had made uneducated-rookie mistakes.
If you do decide to tune it up and build it just make sure the company knows what they're doing. I heard so many horror stories where the builder/tuner had made uneducated-rookie mistakes.
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Bhp is brake hp, the wheels take away 5 hp at the most.....
and i seriously doubt de-stroking and de-boring will be the best way to do it.....not to challenge the authenticity of the numbers, but leave the displacement, or if anything go bigger.....just get cams and porting and compression that match each other
so many people build engines with a mish-mosh of the top of the line stuff from all different companies, they dont always work that well together.....
good luck
and i seriously doubt de-stroking and de-boring will be the best way to do it.....not to challenge the authenticity of the numbers, but leave the displacement, or if anything go bigger.....just get cams and porting and compression that match each other
so many people build engines with a mish-mosh of the top of the line stuff from all different companies, they dont always work that well together.....
good luck
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: (mgags7)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bhp is brake hp, the wheels take away 5 hp at the most.....
and i seriously doubt de-stroking and de-boring will be the best way to do it.....not to challenge the authenticity of the numbers, but leave the displacement, or if anything go bigger.....just get cams and porting and compression that match each other
so many people build engines with a mish-mosh of the top of the line stuff from all different companies, they dont always work that well together.....
good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>
bhp is brake hp, but bhp, from my understanding, is the same # as hp @ the flywheel, which is going to be ~15% higher than whp b/c of drivetrain losses.
and i seriously doubt de-stroking and de-boring will be the best way to do it.....not to challenge the authenticity of the numbers, but leave the displacement, or if anything go bigger.....just get cams and porting and compression that match each other
so many people build engines with a mish-mosh of the top of the line stuff from all different companies, they dont always work that well together.....
good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>
bhp is brake hp, but bhp, from my understanding, is the same # as hp @ the flywheel, which is going to be ~15% higher than whp b/c of drivetrain losses.
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From: Sportscar Heaven, England
Re: (mgags7)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bhp is brake hp, the wheels take away 5 hp at the most.....
and i seriously doubt de-stroking and de-boring will be the best way to do it.....not to challenge the authenticity of the numbers..</TD></TR></TABLE>
As bad-monkey said; FWD setups lose around 15% of flyweel hp (Bhp) because of energy that is used up rotating the gears inside the transmission.
Mugen 'Formula 3' Honda engine is exactly what I said; de-stroked de-bored. The purpose is the reduce piston speed (velocity) enabling them to rev the engine alot higher so as to induct way more air and fuel creating more power. The main issue they found after the R&D was done on de-stroking was piston stability 'in the bore'. So a smaller bore gave increased stability, whilst still acheiving a very high volumetric efficiency.
and i seriously doubt de-stroking and de-boring will be the best way to do it.....not to challenge the authenticity of the numbers..</TD></TR></TABLE>
As bad-monkey said; FWD setups lose around 15% of flyweel hp (Bhp) because of energy that is used up rotating the gears inside the transmission.
Mugen 'Formula 3' Honda engine is exactly what I said; de-stroked de-bored. The purpose is the reduce piston speed (velocity) enabling them to rev the engine alot higher so as to induct way more air and fuel creating more power. The main issue they found after the R&D was done on de-stroking was piston stability 'in the bore'. So a smaller bore gave increased stability, whilst still acheiving a very high volumetric efficiency.
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From: Flowery Branch, Ga
Re: (OTT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OTT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">300 is only possible NA on a H22a if the engine is de-stroked and de-bore'd to 2litre (1998cc) like the mugen F3 engine, they produce 210hp @ 8000rpm and produce just over 300hp at 13,000rpm on 116oct racing fuel. (read it on an F3 site somwhere, I'll try find the link)
It is possible, just expensive. Especially custom timing belts!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I disagree. Yes, the way they make incredible power from the given displacement is from destroking, but this is a strict race car and the poster wants a street car.
"There is no replacement for displacement"
Member 2point6 has a 2.44 liter H22 that is putting down a healthy high 240ish HP dyno. He is the closest street car w/ a H-motor I have seen come to 300bhp/255whp.
I would say go as big as you can, spend a lot on tuning, and pray like hell!
It is possible, just expensive. Especially custom timing belts!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I disagree. Yes, the way they make incredible power from the given displacement is from destroking, but this is a strict race car and the poster wants a street car.
"There is no replacement for displacement"
Member 2point6 has a 2.44 liter H22 that is putting down a healthy high 240ish HP dyno. He is the closest street car w/ a H-motor I have seen come to 300bhp/255whp.
I would say go as big as you can, spend a lot on tuning, and pray like hell!
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From: Sportscar Heaven, England
Re: (LudeyKrus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I disagree. Yes, the way they make incredible power from the given displacement is from destroking, but this is a strict race car and the poster wants a street car.
"There is no replacement for displacement"</TD></TR></TABLE>
you Americans with your muscle car
. Fuels to expensive here in England. Compared to america its ridiculous! Fair point though.
I disagree. Yes, the way they make incredible power from the given displacement is from destroking, but this is a strict race car and the poster wants a street car.
"There is no replacement for displacement"
</TD></TR></TABLE>you Americans with your muscle car
. Fuels to expensive here in England. Compared to america its ridiculous! Fair point though.
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From: Manchester, UK
Re: (maxvtec7500)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxvtec7500 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bhp isn't brake hp mgags, its british horsepower which was the unit that was developed decades ago. It is though hp at the flywheel. </TD></TR></TABLE>
WTF????!!!!! Not sure if you're having a laugh, or been smoking crack! BHP is NOT British Horse Power, it's Brake Horse Power (I could go into the history of why it's brake horse power, but I won't bore you with the details - plus I can't remember exactly). You need to bear in mind, that when we talk about hp or bhp in the UK, we are 99% of the time referring to the FLYWHEEL power. Whereas you Americans generally refer to wheel horsepower.
Just thought I'd clear things up from the British camp!
</TD></TR></TABLE>WTF????!!!!! Not sure if you're having a laugh, or been smoking crack!
BHP is NOT British Horse Power, it's Brake Horse Power (I could go into the history of why it's brake horse power, but I won't bore you with the details - plus I can't remember exactly). You need to bear in mind, that when we talk about hp or bhp in the UK, we are 99% of the time referring to the FLYWHEEL power. Whereas you Americans generally refer to wheel horsepower.Just thought I'd clear things up from the British camp!
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
actually, BHP does stand for Brake HP.
but the "brake" in BHP isn't referring to the brakes on the car. BHP is also known as shaft horsepower.
not sure where the "brake" came from, though.
but the "brake" in BHP isn't referring to the brakes on the car. BHP is also known as shaft horsepower.
not sure where the "brake" came from, though.
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From: ESSEX, UK, UK
Re: (bad-monkey)
BHP is brake horse power measured at the wheels
HP is measured at the flywheel this measurment will always read higher due to power lost through the drive chain.
Oh and im from the uK and my jdm lude is 202bhp
HP is measured at the flywheel this measurment will always read higher due to power lost through the drive chain.
Oh and im from the uK and my jdm lude is 202bhp
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From: ESSEX, UK, UK
Re: (bad-monkey)
BHP is brake horse power measured at the wheels
HP is measured at the flywheel this measurment will always read higher due to power lost through the drive chain. but bhp is what the real people use here
Oh and im from the uK and my jdm lude is 202bhp
HP is measured at the flywheel this measurment will always read higher due to power lost through the drive chain. but bhp is what the real people use here
Oh and im from the uK and my jdm lude is 202bhp
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From: ESSEX, UK, UK
Re: (bad-monkey)
BHP is brake horse power measured at the wheels
HP is measured at the flywheel this measurment will always read higher due to power lost through the drive chain. but bhp is what the real people use here
Oh and im from the uK and my jdm lude is 202bhp
HP is measured at the flywheel this measurment will always read higher due to power lost through the drive chain. but bhp is what the real people use here
Oh and im from the uK and my jdm lude is 202bhp
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
nice 3x post, but you're wrong. like i said, BHP = Flywheel HP.
looking at the specs from edmunds, i know my lude didn't come from the factory with 200 whp, because it says i have 200 bhp in the spec sheet...
looking at the specs from edmunds, i know my lude didn't come from the factory with 200 whp, because it says i have 200 bhp in the spec sheet...
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From: Flowery Branch, Ga
Re: (PreludeH22vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PreludeH22vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BHP is brake horse power measured at the wheels
HP is measured at the flywheel this measurment will always read higher due to power lost through the drive chain. but bhp is what the real people use here
Oh and im from the uK and my jdm lude is 202bhp </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
HP is measured at the flywheel this measurment will always read higher due to power lost through the drive chain. but bhp is what the real people use here
Oh and im from the uK and my jdm lude is 202bhp
</TD></TR></TABLE>Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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From: Manchester, UK
Re: (PreludeH22vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PreludeH22vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BHP is brake horse power measured at the wheels
HP is measured at the flywheel this measurment will always read higher due to power lost through the drive chain. but bhp is what the real people use here
Oh and im from the uK and my jdm lude is 202bhp </TD></TR></TABLE>
So you're telling me that you have 202 at the Road Wheel?? Reading through your list of mods (which equates to just an air filter and exhaust - without even an aftermarket header), I find this extremely difficult to believe. It basically means you got 30+ flywheel horsepower from an exhaust and filter????
HP is measured at the flywheel this measurment will always read higher due to power lost through the drive chain. but bhp is what the real people use here
Oh and im from the uK and my jdm lude is 202bhp
</TD></TR></TABLE>So you're telling me that you have 202 at the Road Wheel?? Reading through your list of mods (which equates to just an air filter and exhaust - without even an aftermarket header), I find this extremely difficult to believe. It basically means you got 30+ flywheel horsepower from an exhaust and filter????
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From: Manchester, UK
Re: (Demonlude)
Just to try and clear things up, here is a definition of BRAKE horse power.....
Brake horsepower: (BHP)
"A measurement of the actual usable power (not calculated power)
measured at the output shaft (usually the crankshaft) rather than at
the driveshaft or the wheels. Thus none of the auxiliaries (gearbox,
generator, alternator, differential, water pump, etc.) are attached.
It is called the brake horsepower because the shaft power is usually
measured by an absorption dynamometer or "brake." This is not the
brake on the vehicle's wheels but a testing device applied to the
shaft. This instrument is applied to stop or absorb the rotation of
the output shaft and returns a value."
Brake horsepower: (BHP)
"A measurement of the actual usable power (not calculated power)
measured at the output shaft (usually the crankshaft) rather than at
the driveshaft or the wheels. Thus none of the auxiliaries (gearbox,
generator, alternator, differential, water pump, etc.) are attached.
It is called the brake horsepower because the shaft power is usually
measured by an absorption dynamometer or "brake." This is not the
brake on the vehicle's wheels but a testing device applied to the
shaft. This instrument is applied to stop or absorb the rotation of
the output shaft and returns a value."
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From: Isle of Man, U.K.
Re: (Demonlude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Demonlude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So you're telling me that you have 202 at the Road Wheel?? Reading through your list of mods (which equates to just an air filter and exhaust - without even an aftermarket header), I find this extremely difficult to believe. It basically means you got 30+ flywheel horsepower from an exhaust and filter????</TD></TR></TABLE>
Couldn't agree more Adam, everybody loves a dreamer
So you're telling me that you have 202 at the Road Wheel?? Reading through your list of mods (which equates to just an air filter and exhaust - without even an aftermarket header), I find this extremely difficult to believe. It basically means you got 30+ flywheel horsepower from an exhaust and filter????</TD></TR></TABLE>
Couldn't agree more Adam, everybody loves a dreamer