Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma
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From: Connecticut, USA
Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma
OK everyone - I am trying to find the "right" rear sway bar for my 95 GSR and have gotten way too many opinions and you know what they say about opinions!
Anyways - I am trying to find a bar that is 1) Strong 22mm or higher, 2) can be used with a subframe that has the bolts drilled out (Previously used the beaks kit) and 3) offers adjustability for those rainy days or just simple tunning of oversteer/understeer.
The word on the street says the Ground Control 25mm rear bar is the best, but they no longer make it. The comptech kit is nice (expensive) but looks very strong and its adjustable although they only use a 22mm bar. Also I am not sure if it will work with my subframe as I think you need to have the factory bolts there still.
What are others using and what should I use? I currently have a 22mm ITR rear sway bar and it non-adjustable.
Modified by VTECAcuraGSR at 9:20 PM 12/15/2004
Anyways - I am trying to find a bar that is 1) Strong 22mm or higher, 2) can be used with a subframe that has the bolts drilled out (Previously used the beaks kit) and 3) offers adjustability for those rainy days or just simple tunning of oversteer/understeer.
The word on the street says the Ground Control 25mm rear bar is the best, but they no longer make it. The comptech kit is nice (expensive) but looks very strong and its adjustable although they only use a 22mm bar. Also I am not sure if it will work with my subframe as I think you need to have the factory bolts there still.
What are others using and what should I use? I currently have a 22mm ITR rear sway bar and it non-adjustable.
Modified by VTECAcuraGSR at 9:20 PM 12/15/2004
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From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (Track rat)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">26mm Mugen (sorry, no adjustment) is good, but I hear they are now hard to come by.</TD></TR></TABLE>
They are hard to come by. If any1 seens one for sale, lemme know.
They are hard to come by. If any1 seens one for sale, lemme know.
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: HP, NC, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (SPiFF)
I got a Mugen 26 from King about 2 years ago, but I wanted a GC adjustable. They weren't making them then either.
Ground Control...if you are listening, you could sell a pile of 26mm adjustable rear bars to a mob of Honda track geeks if you wanted to!
Ground Control...if you are listening, you could sell a pile of 26mm adjustable rear bars to a mob of Honda track geeks if you wanted to!
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Trial User
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From: Denial, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (SPiFF)
Whiteline also makes an adjustable bar.
http://www.whiteline.com.au
typer_801 has one of these so you may want to try and contact him.
http://www.whiteline.com.au
typer_801 has one of these so you may want to try and contact him.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (VTECAcuraGSR)
The Comptech bar would work, you just may need to add some backing nuts. I did this when installing it on my civic and everything worked fine.
I wish someone would post a picture Saner's offering. They could make 10X the money if they'd update their website. Maybe one of the ever-present vendors in the forum should contact them about wholesale opportunities.
I wish someone would post a picture Saner's offering. They could make 10X the money if they'd update their website. Maybe one of the ever-present
vendors in the forum should contact them about wholesale opportunities.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2000
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From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (Track rat)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got a Mugen 26 from King about 2 years ago, but I wanted a GC adjustable. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I used to run a GC 24mm adjustable and never liked it. The heim join geometry was kind of a pain to get right and the adjustments were hard to get right side to side. You also had to gorilla tighten the adjuster to keep it from slipping. Though this was with much softer spring rates then our race cars. I don't think that would be an issue with the 800+ rear rates we are all running.
I used to run a GC 24mm adjustable and never liked it. The heim join geometry was kind of a pain to get right and the adjustments were hard to get right side to side. You also had to gorilla tighten the adjuster to keep it from slipping. Though this was with much softer spring rates then our race cars. I don't think that would be an issue with the 800+ rear rates we are all running.
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From: SoCal
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (SPiFF)
Progress also makes one. I think it's 22mm. I never did the research, but a brief post on this board before suggested that since the bends are different, the effect of the bar is greater than say, a ITR 22mm bar.
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (Vitt1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I used to run a GC 24mm adjustable and never liked it. The heim join geometry was kind of a pain to get right and the adjustments were hard to get right side to side. You also had to gorilla tighten the adjuster to keep it from slipping. Though this was with much softer spring rates then our race cars. I don't think that would be an issue with the 800+ rear rates we are all running.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You don't need to get the adjustment to be the same side to side. It actually makes tuning easier when you just move one side (in the pits during a race). This is why some people consider the Comptech to have 5 different settings instead of its advertised 3.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vitt1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Progress also makes one. I think it's 22mm. I never did the research, but a brief post on this board before suggested that since the bends are different, the effect of the bar is greater than say, a ITR 22mm bar. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I thought the progress bar mounted to the lower shock bolts. That would make it softer than a GSR/Type R style bar. Oh wait, I think I have progress & Suspension Techniques mixed up...
I used to run a GC 24mm adjustable and never liked it. The heim join geometry was kind of a pain to get right and the adjustments were hard to get right side to side. You also had to gorilla tighten the adjuster to keep it from slipping. Though this was with much softer spring rates then our race cars. I don't think that would be an issue with the 800+ rear rates we are all running.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You don't need to get the adjustment to be the same side to side. It actually makes tuning easier when you just move one side (in the pits during a race). This is why some people consider the Comptech to have 5 different settings instead of its advertised 3.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vitt1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Progress also makes one. I think it's 22mm. I never did the research, but a brief post on this board before suggested that since the bends are different, the effect of the bar is greater than say, a ITR 22mm bar. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I thought the progress bar mounted to the lower shock bolts. That would make it softer than a GSR/Type R style bar. Oh wait, I think I have progress & Suspension Techniques mixed up...
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (94eg!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You don't need to get the adjustment to be the same side to side. It actually makes tuning easier when you just move one side (in the pits during a race). This is why some people consider the Comptech to have 5 different settings instead of its advertised 3.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why would you want the bar intentionally twisted to one side? - which is what adjusting only one side would do.
[edit] or are you adjusting the length of the end-link at the same time?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I thought the progress bar mounted to the lower shock bolts. That would make it softer than a GSR/Type R style bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's some debate about this. The fact that the links mount further out (when taken alone) would actually result in more movement of the bar and a higher wheel rate.
The catch is that the bar probably needs to be longer to reach the shock mount, reducing stiffness. I don't think an accurate stiffness comparison can be made without further testing.
You don't need to get the adjustment to be the same side to side. It actually makes tuning easier when you just move one side (in the pits during a race). This is why some people consider the Comptech to have 5 different settings instead of its advertised 3.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why would you want the bar intentionally twisted to one side? - which is what adjusting only one side would do.
[edit] or are you adjusting the length of the end-link at the same time?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I thought the progress bar mounted to the lower shock bolts. That would make it softer than a GSR/Type R style bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's some debate about this. The fact that the links mount further out (when taken alone) would actually result in more movement of the bar and a higher wheel rate.
The catch is that the bar probably needs to be longer to reach the shock mount, reducing stiffness. I don't think an accurate stiffness comparison can be made without further testing.
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From: Ocoee, Fl, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (94eg!)
I have been running the GC 25mm adjustable bar since I built my 1995 GSR and once it was adjusted I rarely touch it. Except when it rains. Any adjustments I make are usually with shocks or springs, seems like it is a more noticeable change.
I have never had the clamps slip on the GC bar, but I use 1000+ springs in the rear.
The one that looks the best is the A-spec racing bar, which may be available soon. It is a 32mm hollow bar that looks great, but retail is $500.
If saner, whitehouse, ground-control made a 26mm adjustable that would be what you need, IMO.
Scott S.
#38 ITS GS-R
I have never had the clamps slip on the GC bar, but I use 1000+ springs in the rear.
The one that looks the best is the A-spec racing bar, which may be available soon. It is a 32mm hollow bar that looks great, but retail is $500.
If saner, whitehouse, ground-control made a 26mm adjustable that would be what you need, IMO.
Scott S.
#38 ITS GS-R
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (VTECAcuraGSR)
I'm not sure which nuts were drilled out for the Beaks kit but I had removed the necessary nuts for the BSQ kit and I found that the Comptech bracket doesn't use them.
If you ask real nice Comptech will make you a co-axial version of their swaybar for the DC2. The ends are 22mm and the center is about 38mm IIRC. Pics can be seen here:
http://www.geocities.com/rineracing/comptech.html
If you don't want to go that fancy (or expensive) I would simply ask Comptech to make a thicker version of their regular bar.
If you ask real nice Comptech will make you a co-axial version of their swaybar for the DC2. The ends are 22mm and the center is about 38mm IIRC. Pics can be seen here:
http://www.geocities.com/rineracing/comptech.html
If you don't want to go that fancy (or expensive) I would simply ask Comptech to make a thicker version of their regular bar.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (Track rat)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Major Tom »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ground Control...if you are listening, you could sell a pile of 26mm adjustable rear bars to a mob of Honda track geeks if you wanted to!</TD></TR></TABLE>
And I'm floating in the most peculiar way
For here am I sitting in a tin can, far above the world
Planet Earth is blue and there's nothing I can do
And I'm floating in the most peculiar way
For here am I sitting in a tin can, far above the world
Planet Earth is blue and there's nothing I can do
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From: Concord, CA, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (BrianZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrianZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
3) I have the Comptech rear bar on my H4 car. Personally I Think the adjustability is overrated. At the limit on a track there is only a slight difference between all the settings. And when it rains, I remove the bar.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
With all due respect, the reason why only slight difference is because your suspension is not properly tuned. With properly tuned suspension, every adjustment make quite a big difference. Like in my car, one hole adjustment could mean 1 sec or more difference in lap time and can make the car from oversteering to neutral to understeer with just a bar adjustment.
3) I have the Comptech rear bar on my H4 car. Personally I Think the adjustability is overrated. At the limit on a track there is only a slight difference between all the settings. And when it rains, I remove the bar.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
With all due respect, the reason why only slight difference is because your suspension is not properly tuned. With properly tuned suspension, every adjustment make quite a big difference. Like in my car, one hole adjustment could mean 1 sec or more difference in lap time and can make the car from oversteering to neutral to understeer with just a bar adjustment.
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (Andrie)
If you take the measurements of the bar and plug it into a wheel rate calculator you can calculate exactly how much you are changing the wheel rate by. IIRC the Comptech holes cover an adjustment range of about 15% of the overall stiffness.
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From: HP, NC, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (Chris F)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And I'm floating in the most peculiar way
For here am I sitting in a tin can, far above the world
Planet Earth is blue and there's nothing I can do</TD></TR></TABLE>
WTF?! Are you saying there's not a market for a well made adjustable rear bar, or agreeing that GC isn't capable or interested?
And I'm floating in the most peculiar way
For here am I sitting in a tin can, far above the world
Planet Earth is blue and there's nothing I can do</TD></TR></TABLE>
WTF?! Are you saying there's not a market for a well made adjustable rear bar, or agreeing that GC isn't capable or interested?
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
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From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (Track rat)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
WTF?! Are you saying there's not a market for a well made adjustable rear bar, or agreeing that GC isn't capable or interested?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Look at the quote a little closer...
Ground Control to Major Tom
Your circuit's dead, there's something wrong
Can you hear me, Major Tom?
(Sorry for the OT banter Allan.)
WTF?! Are you saying there's not a market for a well made adjustable rear bar, or agreeing that GC isn't capable or interested?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Look at the quote a little closer...
Ground Control to Major Tom
Your circuit's dead, there's something wrong
Can you hear me, Major Tom?
(Sorry for the OT banter Allan.)
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From: Concord, CA, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (BrianZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrianZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you may, and most are likely correct.
not saying that it does not change my car, it just does not change a whole lot..
You wanna prove me wrong and help me set-up my suspension ? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't think you want to pay the cost
you may, and most are likely correct.
not saying that it does not change my car, it just does not change a whole lot..
You wanna prove me wrong and help me set-up my suspension ?
</TD></TR></TABLE>I don't think you want to pay the cost
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From: HP, NC, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (Chris F)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(Sorry for the OT banter Allan.)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Heh, heh. Dude, I've got no time for David Bowie while I'm ranting about go-fast suspension chit! 
Heh, heh. Dude, I've got no time for David Bowie while I'm ranting about go-fast suspension chit!
Trial User
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From: Northern, CA, USA
Re: Rear DC2 Sway Bar Dilemma (Andrie)
Z,
I have to agree with Andre on this. Changing the setting on the rear bar does make a big difference. I have the Comptech on my car & will use one for my new car.
I have to agree with Andre on this. Changing the setting on the rear bar does make a big difference. I have the Comptech on my car & will use one for my new car.
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: norcal/socal/central cal, Ca, usa
cusco makes a 25mm that works well, and like andre said adjustability is actually important in track situations.
IRL drivers have just a few things in the cockpit, and one is sway bar adjustment.
IRL drivers have just a few things in the cockpit, and one is sway bar adjustment.