Ok, I just recently pulled my p72's out of my GSR block, I am putting some P30's in as well as replacing the rod bearings and all gaskets of course.

My question is, Is it ABSOLUTELY necessary to get my cylinders honed?

Can i get by with using a honing or "deglazing" tool from a auto parts store with a drill?

The engine is going to be running a stock p72 0BD2a ecu. I don't want to do the "just beat the **** out of it" to get the rings to seat, because i dont want it to starve of fuel with the stock injectors and fuel system. I will have a FPR to adjust pressure though. (but again am afraid of washing out).

List of mods --
Stock cams - plan to replace with Blox tuner Type B's
Toda valvesprings
P30's with hasting rings
Skunk2 intake manifold
AN-R IM gasket
Stock port
Stock headgasket
ARP headstuds
Padawan sp? P/S kit
Fidanza 7lb flywheel
Ghetto shorty intake
Apex N1 catback with test pipe
An-r header
FPR
Will be tuned with uberdata once broken in and ready for tuning.

Any suggestions on my setup or any advice is welcome.
Keep in mind this is my first build!

Yes, I tried searching and couldn't find anything useful.
thanks

 

honeing is cheap from a machine shop or you can DIY... is it worth that small cost?(locally here they charge me 30 bucks) ??otherwise you could always pull your head again when them rings dont seal and have too replace rings and a headgasket......just get it honed so you dont have too do **** twice for no reason

 

I wasnt planning on not honing at all, I guess I didnt make that apparent.
I really don't want to take the block out and to a machine shop, are the DIY kits reliable? Just to get the glaze off so the rings can seal?
I know the old saying, do it right the first time, but I am sketchy about taking the block out and then there being more room for error. (although I do need to install a new clutch).

 

The DIY kits are as good as the person using it.

It is really easy. Just use a power drill and get a nice 60 degree crosshatch. It is better then nothing.

 

I think im just going to try the DIY tool and see how it goes.

 

Any other opinions?

 

dont hone it.. dont LISTEN to these people, because appearently none of them know what HONDA says about honing. read the helms that will answere your qestion

 

just do it, its nothing like having to spend all that money/time on your motor to find out that your compression # are low and the culprit was not having a honed wall to help seal the rings...

its about $20-$30 here at my local machine shop, its worth the investment...or if you want just DIY

 

tell me mr thrust, whats limit for out of round on a honda bore(helms spec)

and then, tell me how you expect to keep a drill straight up and down within that spec to insure no taper or out of round.

the hone that honda does is better than anyone local to you can proba bly do.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnzm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> read the helms that will answere your qestion

</TD></TR></TABLE>

could you quote it for us please. I don't own a helms.

 

Me either

 

i will later, or someone might get to it before me.

b20-vert.scratches in the bore, trash!
b18c- vert. scratches in bore, overbore. no vert. scratches measure for out of round and taper. if within spec DO NOT TOUCH. never a rehone in helms, just bore and then hone...

spec for taper and out of round is rediculously small.

 

good thing I'm going .25 over anyways then

 

Can you post up later the specs? I guess I'll need to get a gauge and measure.

 

like i said, im SURE someone will get the specs up before me, but if not ill try to post them tomorrow

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnzm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and then, tell me how you expect to keep a drill straight up and down within that spec to insure no taper or out of round.

the hone that honda does is better than anyone local to you can proba bly do.</TD></TR></TABLE>

First you don't need to keep the drill straight, as the honing stones typically pivot at their centers, so the stones are fully seated and turn concentric with the cylinder bore even if the drill axis is all 5-10 degrees. Honing results in such miniscule material removal that for all practically purposes you will not even loose a .001" from honing, particularly with a drill. Not if you work each cylinder for 4 hours then maybe, but honing is for surface finish only, not increasing bore size.

What does Honda do that you think is so much better than what a machine shop can do? Honda uses the same type of honing machines that just about any other machine shop would use. Now the honed bore will only be as good as the actual boring operation. If there are bore problems before honing, honing will not fix them, honing will simply provide a good surface finish for breaking in a new set of rings.

 

i have 2 diffrent bore tools. one 3 stone one dinglebery

BOTH have spring crap between the drill and the stones.

itll EASILY knock the bore out of round.

the honer that is worth using costs over 300 dollars, and uses u-joints (for a reason).

also, u are going to trust someone else's skills over honda.

i sure as hell know the hone that is there is perfect, so why screw it up by taking it to a mahcine shop who might have a monkey operating the machine. i have multiple articles and pages that pretty much tell me not to hone. ask the BIG builders if they hone a block that measures in and has no issues when rebuilding.

last i checked omniman made 200whp on a b16 without honing the cylinders....

 

what JOHNZM said, look it up an talk to the big boys, if it doenst need to be bored, then DONT HONE

 

Just take it to a machine shop and have them bump an 810 through it couple times.

 

I work at acura and i have never seen them use a tool that is even close to worth 300 bucks. What i have seen is dingleberrys and power screwdrivers. What they do is just run the dingleberry up and down at a certain speed so that they will get the good cross hatches and get the glaze off. I have done this to my own block with dingleberrys and it hardly takes any metal off. It just takes the glaze off so that the rings have a fresh surface to seal on. I say get the dingleberry and do it your self. read on how to do it tho cuz you still can mess something up if you do it wrong.

oh and if the cylinder is out of round slightly or needs a real hone then it will be sent to a machine shop the dealership doesnt actually have any of those tools at the shop.


Modified by highperboi at 7:57 PM 12/15/2004

 

its alright, guys.

listen, everyone has an opinion, and they are all ********...


er i mean like ********...

anyways i tend to stick to helm procedure

"only scored or scratched cylinder bores must be honed."
taper limit is .002 per helms

now do you really think you can keep the bore withing .002 with a dingleberry hone. thaqt **** is uncontrollable

also says...
"use only a rigid hone with a fine (400 grit) stone"

dongleberry does not look too rigid to me......

 

well you are right but i dont think he wants to hone it i think it just wants to de glaze it. if you hone it then you are actually taking metal off and should do it the right way but if hes only just getting the glaze off then i think dingleberrys would work just fine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnzm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
"only scored or scratched cylinder bores must be honed."
taper limit is .002 per helms

now do you really think you can keep the bore withing .002 with a dingleberry hone. thaqt **** is uncontrollable

</TD></TR></TABLE>

First of all, you are not even going to take thousandths of an inch off with a hone. Try ten thousanths of an inch. That is 0.000x". You would have to spend 2 hours with a dingle ball hone to remove .002", being sarcastic, but it would take a LONG time.

As for machine shop honing vs. Honda, I would still argue there is no difference. As an Mechanical engineer, I work as a designer dealing with tools that involve honing operations all the time. This is daily experience for me. I deal with manufacturing equipment all the time, and the difference between a machine shop honing machine vs. Honda will come down to setup of the block. Honda will most likely have an automated block setup process, where as a machine shop will have to manually setup the block, leaving block setup to human error. Personally I would trust a skilled machinist over a "computer" anyday. Problem is finding that skilled machinist. Keep in mind that I am refering to a machine shop that uses automated honing machines, not hand tools.

Now I would agree than I am not wild about dingle ball hones or manually operated honing stones, particulary when my machine shop will run it on their equipment for a few bucks.

 

Actually...I think John is right. I misunderstood the part about a "rigid" hone.

 

i was always under the impression that when you swap out pistons, in any case, that you should re-hone, just to make sure that the new rings are able to seat well.

P.S. Im real drunk so if im just talkin out my *** please dont flame