I am going to install h22 Type S camshafts on my 98 base h22. now, do i need to upgrade springs and retainers or stock ones will handle fine? also, do i need to get a new tentioner as well?

 

Should work fine.

 

If you can run Skunk Stage 1 or OBX Stage 1 with stock springs/retainers, then you should easily be able to run Type S cams with them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TypeR0207 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you can run Skunk Stage 1 or OBX Stage 1 with stock springs/retainers, then you should easily be able to run Type S cams with them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

just because u can run something like that doesnt mean u should....

 

So you would suggest buying some springs that have a spring rate that is more than the lobes are designed for, and thus put more pressure on the rest of the valvetrain and lose power?

Yeah, that makes sense .........

Unless you are going to raise the factory redline (which everyone says is a no-no unless you've reinforced the bottom end anyways), you do not need to upgrade the springs, and even if you do, overdoing the spring rate can cause more harm than good.

 

You don't need to reinforce the bottom end to raise the factory redline. I got a stock USDM bottom end on my jun head and rev that **** to 8k no problem. Its tuned to go that high. It made power further out but we shut her down at 8K.

To answer the original poster, you should be fine with stock valvetrain as long as you don't take it past stock redline. It might benefit you more to find some type S springs and retainers just for reassurance as i do believe its valvetrain is different that base/SH models.

 

i have the stage 1's with stock springs. I have had no problems at all. But im for sure doing my valvetrain soon bc with these cams and prospeed header i can feel the most pull up top from about 6.5 to 7.5k.

 

The type S cams will hit the valve seal/guide in a standard h22 head!
Type S cams do not install without issue's in a standard h22 head., and I do not care if someone else has done it "without issue's"
Honda DOES NOT do it! the factory type S head has relocated valve guides to make room for the type S cams.
The S springs are stiffer as well, the retainers are identical though!

I have a 2001 type S head here as well as numerous regular h22 heads.
those are the facts!
have fun!
Frank

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PocketRockets Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The type S cams will hit the valve seal/guide in a standard h22 head!
Type S cams do not install without issue's in a standard h22 head., and I do not care if someone else has done it "without issue's"
Honda DOES NOT do it! the factory type S head has relocated valve guides to make room for the type S cams.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you have an H22A Type-S head then take comparison pics, offer partnumber references or provide ACTUAL measurements. At the very least say EXACTLY what is different and how. Otherwise all you are to me is another guy on the internet spouting misinformation.

Pirate

 

type s heads do have relocated valve guides, but the issue isnt the guides.

even with type s cams id deffinatly upgrade valvetrain. stock retainers are thick, about 0.060 thicker than average ti retainer. if you run alot of lift then you need the thinner retainer to avoid contact between the retainer and the valve guide.

even though you have the thickness issue, type s cams will work in a stock h22 head, BUT you better not miss a gear. anything over the stock redline and you will bend valves and risk retainer to guide contact, which could potentially break the retainer, guide and cause the valve to drop destroying your engine.

i think kteller is selling the rocket valve springs/retainers for around 250 or so... thats not much, so go ahead and upgrade.

as for the tensioner.. i would convert to manual, i just dont trust the autotensioners

 

would you recommend gen 1 or gen 2?

 

Cool, corroboration. I know that the Type-s valve springs were different But I did not know about the retainers. good info.

Pirate

 

im not sure if the type s retainer is differet, i dont think it is, in that head they moved the valve guide... why, i dont know.. a simpler fix would have been a thinner retainer.. maybe thinning out the retainer would have made it weaker .. dunno

 

These parts are different (got them from an european Honda EPC - prelude type-s has been marketed in Europe too):

14751-P5P-J01 spring intake inner
14752-P5P-J01 exhaust inner
14761-P5P-J01 intake outer
14762-P5P-J01 exhaust outer
14765-PCB-003 retainer
14820-PCB-003 valve guide

However I have type-s cams in my car with non-upgraded valvetrain and I didn't observed any knocking etc what could confirm the clearance between retainer and valve guide. But I do not overrev my engine at all...

 

interesting... f20b specific parts are normally marked as PCB

 

f20b... the s2000 engine ???

If so, it is quite possible these performance engines share some specific parts.

My friend has checked and two last positions (retainers and valve guides) are aviable in usa, you can buy directly at any honda dealer / shop and the other good info is they are pretty cheap (about $4 retainer and about $8 valve guide)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wstef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">f20b... the s2000 engine ???</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think he meant the Accord SiR 2.0 L motor. Basically a de-stroked h22a. Type-S head with a shorter stroke. Revs great.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98TypeSH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You don't need to reinforce the bottom end to raise the factory redline. I got a stock USDM bottom end on my jun head and rev that **** to 8k no problem. Its tuned to go that high. It made power further out but we shut her down at 8K.

To answer the original poster, you should be fine with stock valvetrain as long as you don't take it past stock redline. It might benefit you more to find some type S springs and retainers just for reassurance as i do believe its valvetrain is different that base/SH models.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So a USDM or JDM H22a block could handle up to 8k redline with the stock bottom end and built head? Just making sure cuz I'm trying to do some motor work for my USDM h22a1 block as well.

 

f20b dosnt have a type s head.. f20b head is specific to the f20b

 

Nobody said f20b shares the head with type-s engine....

I only told these engines may share some specific parts, like retainers.....................

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H_doubledeuce_A1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think he meant the Accord SiR 2.0 L motor. Basically a de-stroked h22a. Type-S head with a shorter stroke. Revs great.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wstef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nobody said f20b shares the head with type-s engine....

I only told these engines may share some specific parts, like retainers.....................</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Well. I have bought Type-S cams and pulleys from my mates 99 Model Prelude VTi (UK). My Honda parts cd lists the cams as the same ones in the ATR and the Prelude Type-S. Part nos.14111-P5P-J00 and 14121-P5P-J00.

I intend fitting them to my H22A2 motor, and read this thread. So I got him to go out and check the head on his H22A8 motor.(red cam cover). The head is a P13 head so I can't see that the cams wouldn't fit or cause interference with guides.

The parts cd shows clearly that the springs in the H22A8 motor (99 Prelude) are different colours to the ones used in my older P13 head, so they are obviously upgraded ones.

I think it will be ok, although upgrading the springs would be good if not more expensive than just fitting the cams and pulleys.