I may be picking up a new 04 TW EP3 tomorrow. It all depends on the dealer and the price they give me, or whether they take my offer. I have a few questions. The first one is the dumbest of all, but I have'nt looked closely or found anything on here. Please don't flame for the first question. Here goes:

1. What's the lug pattern? I've seen some on HT with 5 lug, but I thought that I've seen them with 4 lug also. Assuming the 5 luggers are CTR swaps.

2. Anybody know the dealer holdback? That's what Honda kicks back to the dealer for making the sale. They say they pay the invoice, but I know there is a commision to the dealership. Just wondering what that is because invoice minus holdback = the price I will offer.

3. Suspension of choice. I've been looking for a little while on this topic. Tein coilovers or Mugen SS seems to me the choice that's being made. It'll be a daily driver for my wife, and I plan to go with 16" wheels/215/45/16 tires. Does'nt have to be ultra-low, but the fender gap has to go. Omnipower coilovers very good? Like to stay under $700 or $800 for coilovers, and used IS an option.

4. On a 16" wheel, what should the offset be?

That's about it. Thanks in advance for any help

 

1. all 04s are 5 lug
2. not sure of dealer holdback, but 16500 max is what you should pay
3. both teh teins and mugen seem to be excellent choices
4.40mm offset

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jonyb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I may be picking up a new 04 TW EP3 tomorrow. It all depends on the dealer and the price they give me, or whether they take my offer. I have a few questions. The first one is the dumbest of all, but I have'nt looked closely or found anything on here. Please don't flame for the first question. Here goes:

1. What's the lug pattern? I've seen some on HT with 5 lug, but I thought that I've seen them with 4 lug also. Assuming the 5 luggers are CTR swaps.

2. Anybody know the dealer holdback? That's what Honda kicks back to the dealer for making the sale. They say they pay the invoice, but I know there is a commision to the dealership. Just wondering what that is because invoice minus holdback = the price I will offer.

3. Suspension of choice. I've been looking for a little while on this topic. Tein coilovers or Mugen SS seems to me the choice that's being made. It'll be a daily driver for my wife, and I plan to go with 16" wheels/215/45/16 tires. Does'nt have to be ultra-low, but the fender gap has to go. Omnipower coilovers very good? Like to stay under $700 or $800 for coilovers, and used IS an option.

4. On a 16" wheel, what should the offset be?
That's about it. Thanks in advance for any help</TD></TR></TABLE>


Well, the 04-up EP3's all come with 5 lugs now, the 02-03 came with 4 lugs. The Civic Type-R's, 02-04-up always have came with 5 lugs. So if you saw a 02-03 with a 5 lug, they've did the Type-R conversion.

As for as for the prices and whatnot, the sticker on my EP3 was $19,400 or something of that nature, but I got it for like $17,000 (if i'm not mistaken) and they told me that that was the invoice on the car, and they gave it to me for that. Now the car was brand new but it was an 2003 model and the 2004's were coming in, so i got a good deal.

Tein coilovers are the absolute best all-around...
I've seen a pair of Tein coilovers for our cars for alittle over $800.00 I don't exactly remember which model they were, but I think they were either the ''Flex'' or the ''basic'' coilovers.

As for as for the 16'' offsets, I don't know. But if I were you, I would either go with 17's or 18's. 16's will make the car definitely sit too low and ride rough, and if you ever decide to go with a body kit or a lip kit...it couldn't be done with 16's. You would be on the ground, literally. lol.

Oh and by the way, I'm sure Omni's would be pretty good, but if you're going to invest in some good suspension, you mine as well go all out the first time. Do it right, get it done right the first time, and forget it about it. You'll never have to worry about it coming back to haunt you or to cost you even more money further down the road.

Anyway...I hope that helped you man.

 

Sweet. Thanks for all the help. I've been told that invoice on this car is $18,342... I'm going to offer about $17,000 for it. Being an 04 in the end of 2004, with 05's coming in, I figure it'll be worth that. The 5 lug is 5X114.3 right? If that's the case, I could try my 16's on it to see how that would look. When you guys say the 16's would be too small, I agree. I've seen a few with WedSports in white

I did see some Tein Type Flex for $1,100 used on this board (I think that price), but I would'nt want to put that much in them. Thanks for the thoughts

 

There is someone selling type flex on ephatch.com for 900 shipped used of course. just letting you know.

 

dont pay 17. i got mine off the lot for 16200 after taxes, titles, tags. and dont pay the "processing fee." no need to pay someone to sell you a car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 03EP3Hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As for as for the 16'' offsets, I don't know. But if I were you, I would either go with 17's or 18's. 16's will make the car definitely sit too low and ride rough, and if you ever decide to go with a body kit or a lip kit...it couldn't be done with 16's. You would be on the ground, literally. lol.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

lots of misinformation here.

16s are just fine, in fact you'll see many eps running 15" wheels too. Its all a matter of preference.

Ride height is also not totally determined by wheel size, my coupe sat lower on 16" wheels then it did on my 14" wheels due to the difference in overall rolling diameter from differing tire sizes.

I've seen 3829382 ep's with body kits or lip kits running wheel sizes &lt;17" too. I don't understand how you can assume it just "couldn't be done".

Usually the ride quality decreases with the increase in wheel diameter since often they demand rubberbands for tires. Keep in mind tire selection is also not as broad with the larger wheels, and significantly more expensive.

Just wanted to clear that up. Misinformation sucks


Modified by Tomek at 9:14 AM 12/13/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tomek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lots of misinformation here.

16s are just fine, in fact you'll see many eps running 15" wheels too. Its all a matter of preference.

Ride height is also not totally determined by wheel size, my coupe sat lower on 16" wheels then it did on my 14" wheels due to the difference in overall rolling diameter from differing tire sizes.

I've seen 3829382 ep's with body kits or lip kits running wheel sizes &lt;17" too. I don't understand how you can assume it just "couldn't be done".

Usually the ride quality decreases with the increase in wheel diameter since often they demand rubberbands for tires. Keep in mind tire selection is also not as broad with the larger wheels, and significantly more expensive.

Just wanted to clear that up. Misinformation sucks


Modified by Tomek at 9:14 AM 12/13/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

Allow me to justify what I said, I shoulnd't have said that it ''can't be done'', anything can be done. What I really meant was, that it could be done, but it's just not in the best interest to do so. My car sits pretty damn low already with 17's, so I could imagine 16's on an EP3. You could probably get away with 16's, yes, but not to say that you won't bottom-out all over the place and you will definitely have to watch where you go at with it and you will have to be extremely careful. And yes, you can put larger diameter tires on 16's, but who wants big,ugly,sloppy looking tires on their rims. Low profile tires look much better. I don't have a body kit or a lip kit on my car yet, but i've seen another guy with an EP3 running 17'' rims and an average size low profile tire on it and he had the Type-R lip kit on it, and he was on the ground with not much ground clearance at all, it looked to me like he would bottom-out all over the place. So in my opinion, i wouldn't put 16's. This is coming from first-hand expericences, and i've seen these things. So no, it's not impossible to put 16's, but it would be pretty stupid. And 15's would be even more retardet. And yes I have seen EP3's with 15's, but this is mostly higly modified race cars that were never meant to be daily drivers, this guy is wanting a daily driver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jonyb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sweet. Thanks for all the help. I've been told that invoice on this car is $18,342... </TD></TR></TABLE>

That might be the "invoice" the dealer tells you about, but that cannot be his true cost.

Three of us over here paid $16,000 out the door for ours. No way the dealer would loose that much on three cars, I don't think.

FWIW I have 16x7 wheels on mine and think that's fine. 225-40-16 Ziex 512's (it's my daily driver and we have snow).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 03EP3Hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Allow me to justify what I said, I shoulnd't have said that it ''can't be done'', anything can be done. What I really meant was, that it could be done, but it's just not in the best interest to do so. My car sits pretty damn low already with 17's, so I could imagine 16's on an EP3. You could probably get away with 16's, yes, but not to say that you won't bottom-out all over the place....</TD></TR></TABLE>

With respect, I think you're a little off base.

Honestly, it sounds to me like you're prone to lowering the car too much, and lowering a McPherson car (as we discussed in a thread here just the other day), introduces a legion of problems.

Don't lower a Honda McPherson car so much.

Most of us are going to be upgrading wheels and tyres with the same overall diameter as the OEM wheel/tyre combination. So I've used 215-45-16 and 225-40-16, both of which are very close to the original wheel/tyre diameter. So I don't understand why a car would automatically be lower just because somebody's using 16's or 15's instead of 17's.

The reason the Mugen SS is <u>not</u> height adjustable is because the front struts are designed with a specific height in mind, and the struts are designed to minimise the bump steer effect with that specific height.

IMHO, if you get the Mugen SS and DC5 ITR rear swaybar, that's about perfect for a daily driver.

<u>AAaaannnndd</u>.... The more you drive, the more you will appreciate the 16" and 15" tyre sizes over the larger ones. You're dealing with an expendable wear item here, and paying too much for tyres is kind of dumb if you can get the same handling in a smaller size, but more cheaply.

I don't see any reason to go larger diameter than 16" unless there is a specific tyre you really want to have for your performance application, and in the case of an EP3 (which is only going to see about 120 on NASCAR banking at Lowes), I really don't understand what 17" tyre would do better for you than a 15" or 16" tyre that is just as wide.

Don't lower your EP's so much. You're not doing well by them.

 

1. 04-05 EP3 come with the five lug, also come with a rear sway 2mm larger than the 02-03 .

2. If its an 04 thats pretty much brand new, expect to pay around 16-17K for it.

3. As far as suspension goes... With your situation i'd go with the Mugen suspension. Although its not adjustable, it is a subtle drop and has the least amount of problems. It the best combination for the DD and the occasional track user. If your car will never see the track there is no need to get tien basics.

4. The offset for rims on the EP should be aorund a 45+ offset. Usually try to stay within a couple of mm of it. 45+ offset is for all rim sizes... Lug pattern for 04-05 is 114.5 x 5 if ya needed to know that oo...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

With respect, I think you're a little off base.

Honestly, it sounds to me like you're prone to lowering the car too much, and lowering a McPherson car (as we discussed in a thread here just the other day), introduces a legion of problems.

Don't lower a Honda McPherson car so much.

Most of us are going to be upgrading wheels and tyres with the same overall diameter as the OEM wheel/tyre combination. So I've used 215-45-16 and 225-40-16, both of which are very close to the original wheel/tyre diameter. So I don't understand why a car would automatically be lower just because somebody's using 16's or 15's instead of 17's.

The reason the Mugen SS is <u>not</u> height adjustable is because the front struts are designed with a specific height in mind, and the struts are designed to minimise the bump steer effect with that specific height.

IMHO, if you get the Mugen SS and DC5 ITR rear swaybar, that's about perfect for a daily driver.

<u>AAaaannnndd</u>.... The more you drive, the more you will appreciate the 16" and 15" tyre sizes over the larger ones. You're dealing with an expendable wear item here, and paying too much for tyres is kind of dumb if you can get the same handling in a smaller size, but more cheaply.

I don't see any reason to go larger diameter than 16" unless there is a specific tyre you really want to have for your performance application, and in the case of an EP3 (which is only going to see about 120 on NASCAR banking at Lowes), I really don't understand what 17" tyre would do better for you than a 15" or 16" tyre that is just as wide.

Don't lower your EP's so much. You're not doing well by them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You got the point across much better than my attempt heh

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Don't lower a Honda McPherson car so much.


Don't lower your EP's so much. You're not doing well by them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Everthing I have read would lead my to believe that George is dead on with his recommendation not to lower the ep3 too much.

 

Oh by the way this should help with pricing,

http://www.edmunds.com/new/200...Honda*

Emdunds.com has the 2005 invoice with no side airbage at just over $18K, this number is dead on as I just paid $17800 for the car itself, I think for the actual invoice number on an 04 its the same. For the 04 its just a matter of how bad the dealer wants to get rid of the car, I would think pretty badly at this point in the year, I would think you could pay as little as $16500-17000 for the car.

 

Thanks for all the help. I picked up an 04 SSM Si today from my local dealer. The closest dealer with white was 350 miles away, so I settled for silver. Got'em down to $16,500 + TTL. I felt that it was worth it. They agreed to sell me parts at cost, such as foglights, EP-R wheels, etc. But for some reason I don't think they will tell me the true cost. Such as the foglights they said cost $297, retailed for $348.

As far as wheel/tire/suspension, I'll most likely stick with 16's and 215/45. I have a set of wheels now that's 45mm 16X7 on my Integra. They have 205/45's now. Still not sure on the suspension, but I'll figure it out soon enough.

Thanks again for all the help

 

No problem man. Enjoy your new EP3!

 

Well dude, I can totally respect your opinion. Most people like to lower their cars just enough so there's no fender gap between the tires and fenderwells, and also enough to where ride-height is comfortable. You want an agressive stance, superior handling, comfortable ride, and you don't want it too low to where you bottom-out everywhere you go, and you don't want it in the air looking like a 4x4. Well that's just my opinion. Thanks for your opinion though, it's good that we don't always agree...that way we have good discussion and people like this guy can get a wide variety of opinions to help make his discisions or problems easier.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 03EP3Hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... it's good that we don't always agree....</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL.... You can probably count on it.

 

Haha, yep.

 

I have the Mugen SS, I personally think its the better of the choices around that price range. It's made specifically for the EP, no need to dink around with the adjustments as it sits at perfect ride height, and its like driving a go-kart. I have 16's, 215/55 Yokohamas... yours might be different though with the change in designs, mine is an 02. If you have any questions I am more than happy to help, I've done alot of my installs, research. Enjoy the car, thats what matters most.


Modified by Frestall at 4:21 PM 12/20/2004

 

Thanks for all of the replies on this subject. I'll prolly go with the Mugen and 16's with 215/45's. The car rides stiff as hell already from the factory. Just needs to have a lower center of gravity. I hate how cars with factory springs squat in the back when you take off from stopping. Thanks again...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jonyb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for all of the replies on this subject. I'll prolly go with the Mugen and 16's with 215/45's. The car rides stiff as hell already from the factory. Just needs to have a lower center of gravity. I hate how cars with factory springs squat in the back when you take off from stopping. Thanks again... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Really? I thought the car was a cream puff in stock trim.

 

Other than the stock Altezza's it is pretty nice. I can't leave anything alone, as you know Todd