Things to do while the motor's out ....
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From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Things to do while the motor's out ....
Sorry if this is a repeat, but wasn't really sure how to search for it ...
I'm getting my H4 CRX ready for competition in January. It was a pre-built racecar (maybe it was run in ITA because it has a SOHC ZC, which I think might be legal for that class) with a decent setup, so there hasn't been much I've had to do to it. I didn't build the car and this is the first car I've even really played with, so I'm kind of learning as I go.
So my H4 motor will be done in a couple weeks and it's got me thinking about the things that I should check/clean/replace while the motor both is out of the car and apart. Since I'm new to racing and motor swaps, I thought I'd ask the veterans.
Here's the list I've thought of so far ...
- check/replace radiator hoses and alternator belt
- flush brake fluid - can't relly think of why this would be easier w/ the motor out, but it's something I want to do anyway and I don't think it could be harder
- underdrive pulley - is this worth the $? it's not like the extra 2-3 hp is going to make me a winning driver, but it's hard to argue with extra hp
- IM phenolic spacer - same comment as above
- replace torn up brake ducts
- general engine bay cleanup
- anything I need to check/replace with the motor mounts or various bushings?
I'm sure there are obvious things I'm missing, so feel free to point them out. I'm sure things will be a little more obvious once I get the current motor out too, but I'd rather plan ahead and have what I need.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
- Scott
I'm getting my H4 CRX ready for competition in January. It was a pre-built racecar (maybe it was run in ITA because it has a SOHC ZC, which I think might be legal for that class) with a decent setup, so there hasn't been much I've had to do to it. I didn't build the car and this is the first car I've even really played with, so I'm kind of learning as I go.
So my H4 motor will be done in a couple weeks and it's got me thinking about the things that I should check/clean/replace while the motor both is out of the car and apart. Since I'm new to racing and motor swaps, I thought I'd ask the veterans.
Here's the list I've thought of so far ...- check/replace radiator hoses and alternator belt
- flush brake fluid - can't relly think of why this would be easier w/ the motor out, but it's something I want to do anyway and I don't think it could be harder
- underdrive pulley - is this worth the $? it's not like the extra 2-3 hp is going to make me a winning driver, but it's hard to argue with extra hp
- IM phenolic spacer - same comment as above
- replace torn up brake ducts
- general engine bay cleanup
- anything I need to check/replace with the motor mounts or various bushings?
I'm sure there are obvious things I'm missing, so feel free to point them out. I'm sure things will be a little more obvious once I get the current motor out too, but I'd rather plan ahead and have what I need.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
- Scott
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From: Gainesville, FL
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (FlyZlow)
Well, since I just did this a couple of months ago, here's my list to add:
1) Check all motor mounts. Unless they're brand new, at least think about replacing the rear tranny mount as you will never have access like this again. The rest can be done later if necessary. All four of mine were broken and I had NO IDEA until I pulled the motor: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=974342
2) Replace the bushings in the steering rack. They're cheap, and you have good access.
3) Consider replacing the upper and lower rad hoses unless they're new already. Check the rest of the water hoses closely and replace as needed since access is good and those are pretty cheap.
4) Check all vacuum hose and replace anything suspicious.
5) Now's a good time to replace the fuel filter.
6) Unless you're new motor comes with an intake manifold, get yourself a new IM gasket for the install. Same with the EM gasket.
7) Replace the timing belt, alternator belt, and water pump if they are not new.
8) This is a good time to setup an oil cooler or temp/pressure senders as you have good access to the back of the block, if you don't have this stuff already.
9) Remove your charcoal canister if this is not a street car anymore.
10) Pull the front cross member and do the radius rod bushings while the motor mounts are out. It's not necessary but it's as good a time as any.
11) Pull your A/C components if anything is left.
12) Replacing the shifter bushings at the linkage and the tranny are easy with the EM and exhaust out.
13) Check over all of your boots, esp. the CV boots but also the steering rod boots, and shifter linkage boots (front and back). This is an easy time to replace them.
There are a LOT more things you can do while the motor is out but I don't know how much you're looking to spend right now. I stuck with a Honda pulley for my new motor so I can't comment on that, plus I don't know who is building your motor and what tricks they're using anyway. I assume it's a D16A6.
I'm going to be out of town next Wed-Fri but I'd be happy to help you with any of this stuff after that. It's all fresh in my mind.
1) Check all motor mounts. Unless they're brand new, at least think about replacing the rear tranny mount as you will never have access like this again. The rest can be done later if necessary. All four of mine were broken and I had NO IDEA until I pulled the motor: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=974342
2) Replace the bushings in the steering rack. They're cheap, and you have good access.
3) Consider replacing the upper and lower rad hoses unless they're new already. Check the rest of the water hoses closely and replace as needed since access is good and those are pretty cheap.
4) Check all vacuum hose and replace anything suspicious.
5) Now's a good time to replace the fuel filter.
6) Unless you're new motor comes with an intake manifold, get yourself a new IM gasket for the install. Same with the EM gasket.
7) Replace the timing belt, alternator belt, and water pump if they are not new.
8) This is a good time to setup an oil cooler or temp/pressure senders as you have good access to the back of the block, if you don't have this stuff already.
9) Remove your charcoal canister if this is not a street car anymore.
10) Pull the front cross member and do the radius rod bushings while the motor mounts are out. It's not necessary but it's as good a time as any.
11) Pull your A/C components if anything is left.
12) Replacing the shifter bushings at the linkage and the tranny are easy with the EM and exhaust out.
13) Check over all of your boots, esp. the CV boots but also the steering rod boots, and shifter linkage boots (front and back). This is an easy time to replace them.
There are a LOT more things you can do while the motor is out but I don't know how much you're looking to spend right now. I stuck with a Honda pulley for my new motor so I can't comment on that, plus I don't know who is building your motor and what tricks they're using anyway. I assume it's a D16A6.
I'm going to be out of town next Wed-Fri but I'd be happy to help you with any of this stuff after that. It's all fresh in my mind.
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From: tq is not an option
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (BrianZ)
a ZC motor would be technically be considered a hybrid and would land you in H1
Under drive pulley is good but you need to have it balance with the bottom end or you will have premature bearing failure
Under drive pulley is good but you need to have it balance with the bottom end or you will have premature bearing failure
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From: Mainland, USA
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (sans)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a ZC motor would be technically be considered a hybrid and would land you in H1
</TD></TR></TABLE>
"Technically" seems like the easy way to break it to him. "You have an H1 car" is more....well you get the picture.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
"Technically" seems like the easy way to break it to him. "You have an H1 car" is more....well you get the picture.
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From: tq is not an option
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (jisu009)
Well were it not for the block marking it would be impossible for most people to tell and the power is nearly the same with a US ecm
he may want to approach the rules steward for his area first before proceding
he may want to approach the rules steward for his area first before proceding
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From: cali
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (sans)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well were it not for the block marking it would be impossible for most people to tell and the power is nearly the same with a US ecm
he may want to approach the rules steward for his area first before proceding</TD></TR></TABLE>
its an H1 car, with a ZC in it. You can't take a d16y8 and throw it into a 92-95 civic and say well its just about the same motor.
he may want to approach the rules steward for his area first before proceding</TD></TR></TABLE>
its an H1 car, with a ZC in it. You can't take a d16y8 and throw it into a 92-95 civic and say well its just about the same motor.
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From: Gainesville, FL
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (FlyZlow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So my H4 motor will be done in a couple weeks </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since I'm new to racing and motor swaps, </TD></TR></TABLE>
I took this to mean that we're talking about a new H4 motor separate from the ZC.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since I'm new to racing and motor swaps, </TD></TR></TABLE>
I took this to mean that we're talking about a new H4 motor separate from the ZC.
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From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (travis)
Well, I'm hoping to race with Scott come January, so I can speak up for him here. Yes, the motor he is swapping in is a D16A6 and he is doing the swap specifically to be H4 legal. He doesn't want to lose to Mike and Paul every weekend in H1. He wants to lose to Danny and Travis every weekend in H4. 
I was wondering about transaxle items for the guy. Anything between the engine and the wheels you guys recommend doing now?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well were it not for the block marking it would be impossible for most people to tell and the power is nearly the same with a US ecm</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's funny you say that. With my ITA/H4 prepped D16A6 (stockish) I was running him every lap down the long front straight at Firebird. We don' need no stinkin' 7K redline!
I was wondering about transaxle items for the guy. Anything between the engine and the wheels you guys recommend doing now?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well were it not for the block marking it would be impossible for most people to tell and the power is nearly the same with a US ecm</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's funny you say that. With my ITA/H4 prepped D16A6 (stockish) I was running him every lap down the long front straight at Firebird. We don' need no stinkin' 7K redline!
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From: tq is not an option
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
its an H1 car, with a ZC in it. You can't take a d16y8 and throw it into a 92-95 civic and say well its just about the same motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>
there's a huge difference here in that a 1.6L ZC is the 88-95 Si motor in japan and that's what you would get from a motor importer to replace an a6 a Y8 is not
its an H1 car, with a ZC in it. You can't take a d16y8 and throw it into a 92-95 civic and say well its just about the same motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>
there's a huge difference here in that a 1.6L ZC is the 88-95 Si motor in japan and that's what you would get from a motor importer to replace an a6 a Y8 is not
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From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (FlyZlow)
As blood and puss run onto my keyboard, and I plan my shopping list at a hardware store tomorrow...
Might I suggest installing motor mount inserts, especially the rear one which can be "slightly difficult" to get to with the motor still in the bay?
-Chris
Might I suggest installing motor mount inserts, especially the rear one which can be "slightly difficult" to get to with the motor still in the bay?
-Chris
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From: Gainesville, FL
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (Sterndotstern)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sterndotstern »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I was wondering about transaxle items for the guy. Anything between the engine and the wheels you guys recommend doing now?</TD></TR></TABLE>
That depends on the budget. Obviously now is the time to do any clutch, diff, gearing work while the motor is out of the car. You can always do it later, but you'll have to go through most of the work to pull the motor just to pull the tranny. For now, I would just suggest you make sure you have a good working clutch and that none of your gears are grinding. Everything else in the tranny can wait. Beyond that, the LSD would be the biggest change available to you followed by the FD. Give me a few weekends on the 4.8 and I'll tell you if I like it.
You don't have to do it to pull the motor, but do you have the axles out of the hubs? If so, now is the best time to replace the bearings. I have a press if you want to bring the parts by (I can do bushings for you too. I've done my whole car with this press with no problem). Beyond that you get into stuff that you can do with or without the motor pulled from the car. Search my posts from the last two years for the laundry list since I've had to do just about all of it
I was wondering about transaxle items for the guy. Anything between the engine and the wheels you guys recommend doing now?</TD></TR></TABLE>
That depends on the budget. Obviously now is the time to do any clutch, diff, gearing work while the motor is out of the car. You can always do it later, but you'll have to go through most of the work to pull the motor just to pull the tranny. For now, I would just suggest you make sure you have a good working clutch and that none of your gears are grinding. Everything else in the tranny can wait. Beyond that, the LSD would be the biggest change available to you followed by the FD. Give me a few weekends on the 4.8 and I'll tell you if I like it.
You don't have to do it to pull the motor, but do you have the axles out of the hubs? If so, now is the best time to replace the bearings. I have a press if you want to bring the parts by (I can do bushings for you too. I've done my whole car with this press with no problem). Beyond that you get into stuff that you can do with or without the motor pulled from the car. Search my posts from the last two years for the laundry list since I've had to do just about all of it
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Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (travis)
Thanks a ton guys for the resonses! All good ideas.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"Technically" seems like the easy way to break it to him. "You have an H1 car" is more....well you get the picture.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not sure how you guys got this? If I wanted to run with the ZC, I wouldn't have had to build a new motor. Anyway, sorry if I was unclear
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd be happy to help you with any of this stuff after that. It's all fresh in my mind.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks Travis! You're the man. I'd love to rely on your experience since you just went through all this. I'm thinking about getting most of it done the week between Xmas and New Year's. I'm off for that whole week. Will you be around? Jon and I have been getting killed at work, so I haven't really had any other time to do stuff.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That depends on the budget.
For now, I would just suggest you make sure you have a good working clutch and that none of your gears are grinding.
I have a press if you want to bring the parts by</TD></TR></TABLE>
As for budget, things are always tight, bu I believe in spending the cash to do it right the first time. Don't think I'll be shelling out the bucks just yet for a FD or LSD though. I doubt I'm a good enough driver yet for it to even matter.
Clutch is solid, tranny is not, so I have a different one waiting to go in w/ the new motor. Before we went to Laguna Seca, I put Syncro Shift 2 in the current tranny and it did much better, but I'm still not going to use it. I'll give some serious thought to doing the wheel berings and other bushings. Thanks for the offer.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrianZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Study the Laguna Seca in car video you just shot!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Heh ... I can't watch the video anymore. It's too painful knowing that I could be there and not here. It makes we want to quit work and be a track bum for the rest of my life. ** see me holding sign "Will work for seat time" **
- Scott
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"Technically" seems like the easy way to break it to him. "You have an H1 car" is more....well you get the picture.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not sure how you guys got this? If I wanted to run with the ZC, I wouldn't have had to build a new motor. Anyway, sorry if I was unclear
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd be happy to help you with any of this stuff after that. It's all fresh in my mind.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks Travis! You're the man. I'd love to rely on your experience since you just went through all this. I'm thinking about getting most of it done the week between Xmas and New Year's. I'm off for that whole week. Will you be around? Jon and I have been getting killed at work, so I haven't really had any other time to do stuff.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That depends on the budget.
For now, I would just suggest you make sure you have a good working clutch and that none of your gears are grinding.
I have a press if you want to bring the parts by</TD></TR></TABLE>
As for budget, things are always tight, bu I believe in spending the cash to do it right the first time. Don't think I'll be shelling out the bucks just yet for a FD or LSD though. I doubt I'm a good enough driver yet for it to even matter.
Clutch is solid, tranny is not, so I have a different one waiting to go in w/ the new motor. Before we went to Laguna Seca, I put Syncro Shift 2 in the current tranny and it did much better, but I'm still not going to use it. I'll give some serious thought to doing the wheel berings and other bushings. Thanks for the offer.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrianZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Study the Laguna Seca in car video you just shot!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Heh ... I can't watch the video anymore. It's too painful knowing that I could be there and not here. It makes we want to quit work and be a track bum for the rest of my life. ** see me holding sign "Will work for seat time" **
- Scott
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From: Columbia, MO, USA
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (FlyZlow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't think I'll be shelling out the bucks just yet for a FD or LSD though. I doubt I'm a good enough driver yet for it to even matter. </TD></TR></TABLE>I doubt your doubt. Look at it this way: you're building a huge, enormous pair of excuses into the car if you don't do it now. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>I doubt your doubt. Look at it this way: you're building a huge, enormous pair of excuses into the car if you don't do it now.
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Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (TeamSlowdotOrg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> you're building a huge, enormous pair of excuses into the car if you don't do it now. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yea, and those excuses come in handy later. I'm running out of things to blame on the car...that sucks.
I'll be around and free from Dec 18 to Jan 4th. Just give me a call.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yea, and those excuses come in handy later. I'm running out of things to blame on the car...that sucks.
I'll be around and free from Dec 18 to Jan 4th. Just give me a call.
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Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (travis)
Yeah, I'll need all the excuses I can get! I'm sloooooow ...
Don't get me wrong tho ... if I had another $1,500 laying around ....
Thanks Travis - I'll let you know
Don't get me wrong tho ... if I had another $1,500 laying around ....
Thanks Travis - I'll let you know
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From: HP, NC, USA
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (FlyZlow)
If you've got some time, motor-out is a good opportunity to clean up and/or paint the engine compartment. Also a good time to weed the engine compartment of all unused wires, brackets and connectors. Tedious work, but you can toss a couple of pounds of unused stuff.
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From: Columbia, MO, USA
Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (Track rat)
A clean-looking engine bay is one of the reasons I wish I wasn't building an SM right now. I get to take all that extra crap out...paint the metal...AND THEN PUT IT BACK IN AGAIN. 
a/k/a Jomo
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Re: Things to do while the motor's out .... (FlyZlow)
I am going through the same thing right now. I am basically getting rid of ALL wiring and rewiring the entire car ,(not be choice, long story), to basically just what the car needs which thankfully won't be to much. Get rid of all brackets, connectors, bolts that aren't in need or use. Save a little wait and clean things up. Plus that's one less thing to track down in troubleshooting electrical gremlins etc... Plus clean the engine bay and maybe repaint. After the engine's back in, with a little discipline you can keep it that way.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Under drive pulley is good but you need to have it balance with the bottom end or you will have premature bearing failure</TD></TR></TABLE>
What would you consider premature bearing failure? What about 77,000 miles of street/auto-x/track abuse and not a single problem? Am I being premature in my expectations?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Under drive pulley is good but you need to have it balance with the bottom end or you will have premature bearing failure</TD></TR></TABLE>
What would you consider premature bearing failure? What about 77,000 miles of street/auto-x/track abuse and not a single problem? Am I being premature in my expectations?
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