H22 rocker arm machining
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H22 rocker arm machining
Im planning on getting some crower stage 2 cams and ive heard that i need to have the rocker arms machined. I getting the whole head redone with 5 angle valve job, supertech vavles, valve springs and titanium retainers. What exactaly is involved with machining the rocker arms. Do you just machine the rollers?
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From: Valdosta, GA, US
Re: (LudeyKrus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have never heard of having to have the rockers machined.....esp. w/ just stage II cams...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have alot of people say they had to mackine them down, but I have them and ran them in my built motor for like 2000 miles and they didnt need to be machined down at all. I think everyone that said that was just being caucious. NAWW MEAN?
I have alot of people say they had to mackine them down, but I have them and ran them in my built motor for like 2000 miles and they didnt need to be machined down at all. I think everyone that said that was just being caucious. NAWW MEAN?
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Flowery Branch, Ga
Fo shizzle my iggin!
So what part specifically supposedly has to be machined down? I think I do remember hearing people say it is and isn't necessary before, but I've seen big cams ran w/ stock rockers no problem.
<----------- Chase, who expects a prompt reply from Chris to be waiting for him as soon as he gets back from his smoke break.
So what part specifically supposedly has to be machined down? I think I do remember hearing people say it is and isn't necessary before, but I've seen big cams ran w/ stock rockers no problem.
<----------- Chase, who expects a prompt reply from Chris to be waiting for him as soon as he gets back from his smoke break.
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Ontario, Canada
Re: H22 rocker arm machining (gsr778)
I install crower components all the time, especially H22's......and I actually happen to know what I am doing 
.
the Crower titanium retainers are designed to sit +0.060" higher up the valve stem.....This allows high lift cams to be used without changing the valve guides....
Honda installs type S cams in Japan of ocurse, but the head is different, the valve guides are installed deeper in the head......type S cams have 0.471" lift, I have some here and I also have a 2001 Type S here.....I have my own flow bench so I am quite involved in heads/engines....
installing high lift cams such as the factory Type S head or any brand, without changing the guides/retainer installed height means the retainers hits the valve seal/guide....a stock H22 head has the retainer hit the guide at 0.490 of lift...
back to Crower.....so crower does it correctly, as the factory rockers vary in forgings, some and most interfere with this newly raised retainer, so they have the be slightly "clearanced", its quite as easy modification to do once you know whats going on and are set up to do it.
I change the valve guides in every head that comes in this shop, the guides material is upgraded to manganese bronze and they are "honed" to fit to each individual valve.....nice accurate tolerances get even more critical as we seek to extract more HP from engines.
I am into all kinds of stuff, I have Crower make a stage 4 cams for the street for me that still retains a non-vtec idle lobe that is acceptable.
anyways thats the low down.........anyone who says the Type S cams fit a regualar h22 are full of crap, they do "install" but the rest of the system is not designed to accept them.....they have no idea whats going on.....thats why they don't get much more power as should be had or they run into valvetrain problems, dropping valves and simply screwing up engines....
Frank
Pocketrockets Racing.
Modified by PocketRockets Racing at 9:08 PM 12/11/2004
.the Crower titanium retainers are designed to sit +0.060" higher up the valve stem.....This allows high lift cams to be used without changing the valve guides....
Honda installs type S cams in Japan of ocurse, but the head is different, the valve guides are installed deeper in the head......type S cams have 0.471" lift, I have some here and I also have a 2001 Type S here.....I have my own flow bench so I am quite involved in heads/engines....
installing high lift cams such as the factory Type S head or any brand, without changing the guides/retainer installed height means the retainers hits the valve seal/guide....a stock H22 head has the retainer hit the guide at 0.490 of lift...
back to Crower.....so crower does it correctly, as the factory rockers vary in forgings, some and most interfere with this newly raised retainer, so they have the be slightly "clearanced", its quite as easy modification to do once you know whats going on and are set up to do it.
I change the valve guides in every head that comes in this shop, the guides material is upgraded to manganese bronze and they are "honed" to fit to each individual valve.....nice accurate tolerances get even more critical as we seek to extract more HP from engines.
I am into all kinds of stuff, I have Crower make a stage 4 cams for the street for me that still retains a non-vtec idle lobe that is acceptable.
anyways thats the low down.........anyone who says the Type S cams fit a regualar h22 are full of crap, they do "install" but the rest of the system is not designed to accept them.....they have no idea whats going on.....thats why they don't get much more power as should be had or they run into valvetrain problems, dropping valves and simply screwing up engines....
Frank
Pocketrockets Racing.
Modified by PocketRockets Racing at 9:08 PM 12/11/2004
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From: Valdosta, GA, US
Re: (LudeyKrus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fo shizzle my iggin!
So what part specifically supposedly has to be machined down? I think I do remember hearing people say it is and isn't necessary before, but I've seen big cams ran w/ stock rockers no problem.
<----------- Chase, who expects a prompt reply from Chris to be waiting for him as soon as he gets back from his smoke break. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry about the "smoke break" Its the bottom of the rocker arm tha would need to be "grinded down a lil because the rockers would hit the retainers.
So what part specifically supposedly has to be machined down? I think I do remember hearing people say it is and isn't necessary before, but I've seen big cams ran w/ stock rockers no problem.
<----------- Chase, who expects a prompt reply from Chris to be waiting for him as soon as he gets back from his smoke break.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Sorry about the "smoke break" Its the bottom of the rocker arm tha would need to be "grinded down a lil because the rockers would hit the retainers.
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From: Cantonment, FL
Re: H22 rocker arm machining (PocketRockets Racing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PocketRockets Racing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I install crower components all the time, especially H22's......and I actually happen to know what I am doing .
the Crower titanium retainers are designed to sit +0.060" higher up the valve stem.....This allows high lift cams to be used without changing the valve guides....
Honda installs type S cams in Japan of ocurse, but the head is different, the valve guides are installed deeper in the head......type S cams have 0.471" lift, I have some here and I also have a 2001 Type S here.....I have my own flow bench so I am quite involved in heads/engines....
installing high lift cams such as the factory Type S head or any brand, without changing the guides/retainer installed height means the retainers hits the valve seal/guide....a stock H22 head has the retainer hit the guide at 0.490 of lift...
back to Crower.....so crower does it correctly, as the factory rockers vary in forgings, some and most interfere with this newly raised retainer, so they have the be slightly "clearanced", its quite as easy modification to do once you know whats going on and are set up to do it.
I change the valve guides in every head that comes in this shop, the guides material is upgraded to manganese bronze and they are "honed" to fit to each individual valve.....nice accurate tolerances get even more critical as we seek to extract more HP from engines.
I am into all kinds of stuff, I have Crower make a stage 4 cams for the street for me that still retains a non-vtec idle lobe that is acceptable.
anyways thats the low down.........anyone who says the Type S cams fit a regualar h22 are full of crap, they do "install" but the rest of the system is not designed to accept them.....they have no idea whats going on.....thats why they don't get much more power as should be had or they run into valvetrain problems, dropping valves and simply screwing up engines....
Frank
Pocketrockets Racing.
Modified by PocketRockets Racing at 9:08 PM 12/11/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
bringing this back up from the dead due to the problem at hand with Dai_Ca_Vietnam_H22a4
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1671032
Frank, can you explain to me why this hasn't been an announced issue with other people who are running a much higher lift cam than the type S, flat/non raised retainers and the stock valve guides in the USDM/ JDM (non type s) heads?
i have NEVER heard of someone running into retainer to valve guide clearance issue's with such a mild cam profile.
Modified by 98vtec at 11:56 PM 6/25/2006
.the Crower titanium retainers are designed to sit +0.060" higher up the valve stem.....This allows high lift cams to be used without changing the valve guides....
Honda installs type S cams in Japan of ocurse, but the head is different, the valve guides are installed deeper in the head......type S cams have 0.471" lift, I have some here and I also have a 2001 Type S here.....I have my own flow bench so I am quite involved in heads/engines....
installing high lift cams such as the factory Type S head or any brand, without changing the guides/retainer installed height means the retainers hits the valve seal/guide....a stock H22 head has the retainer hit the guide at 0.490 of lift...
back to Crower.....so crower does it correctly, as the factory rockers vary in forgings, some and most interfere with this newly raised retainer, so they have the be slightly "clearanced", its quite as easy modification to do once you know whats going on and are set up to do it.
I change the valve guides in every head that comes in this shop, the guides material is upgraded to manganese bronze and they are "honed" to fit to each individual valve.....nice accurate tolerances get even more critical as we seek to extract more HP from engines.
I am into all kinds of stuff, I have Crower make a stage 4 cams for the street for me that still retains a non-vtec idle lobe that is acceptable.
anyways thats the low down.........anyone who says the Type S cams fit a regualar h22 are full of crap, they do "install" but the rest of the system is not designed to accept them.....they have no idea whats going on.....thats why they don't get much more power as should be had or they run into valvetrain problems, dropping valves and simply screwing up engines....
Frank
Pocketrockets Racing.
Modified by PocketRockets Racing at 9:08 PM 12/11/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
bringing this back up from the dead due to the problem at hand with Dai_Ca_Vietnam_H22a4
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1671032
Frank, can you explain to me why this hasn't been an announced issue with other people who are running a much higher lift cam than the type S, flat/non raised retainers and the stock valve guides in the USDM/ JDM (non type s) heads?
i have NEVER heard of someone running into retainer to valve guide clearance issue's with such a mild cam profile.
Modified by 98vtec at 11:56 PM 6/25/2006
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Re: H22 rocker arm machining (98vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
bringing this back up from the dead due to the problem at hand with Dai_Ca_Vietnam_H22a4
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1671032
Frank, can you explain to me why this hasn't been an announced issue with other people who are running a much higher lift cam than the type S, flat/non raised retainers and the stock valve guides in the USDM/ JDM (non type s) heads?
i have NEVER heard of someone running into retainer to valve guide clearance issue's with such a mild cam profile.
ditto
Modified by 98vtec at 11:56 PM 6/25/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
bringing this back up from the dead due to the problem at hand with Dai_Ca_Vietnam_H22a4
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1671032
Frank, can you explain to me why this hasn't been an announced issue with other people who are running a much higher lift cam than the type S, flat/non raised retainers and the stock valve guides in the USDM/ JDM (non type s) heads?
i have NEVER heard of someone running into retainer to valve guide clearance issue's with such a mild cam profile.
ditto
Modified by 98vtec at 11:56 PM 6/25/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
Joined: Dec 2005
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Re: H22 rocker arm machining (Missing Gears)
i have run type s cams in all of my jdm h22 heads w/ no problems. some daily driven, and some drag only making up to 230whp w/ those cams on stock untouched h22 bottom end.
this is news to me, i would have to see it to believe it and like i said i never had or saw any problems. and i tore down and rebuilt many combinations inspecting all components everytime.
this is news to me, i would have to see it to believe it and like i said i never had or saw any problems. and i tore down and rebuilt many combinations inspecting all components everytime.
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From: owen sound,ON, canada
i wonder where my f20b fits into all this , ive heard the f20b head was type s based(being 2000 block)
in the market for some casm so id also liek to know how all this pans out
in the market for some casm so id also liek to know how all this pans out
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From: upstate NY
Re: H22 rocker arm machining (PocketRockets Racing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PocketRockets Racing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">type S cams have 0.471" lift</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PocketRockets Racing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a stock H22 head has the retainer hit the guide at 0.490 of lift...</TD></TR></TABLE>
heh
?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PocketRockets Racing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a stock H22 head has the retainer hit the guide at 0.490 of lift...</TD></TR></TABLE>
heh
?
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From: Sterling, VA, US
Re: H22 rocker arm machining
I'm re-building a H22a4 now for my crx. I was planning on running type s cams. I'll be sure to check the clearance carefully before I proceed. I have also never heard of any problems of this nature with this set up. (usdm h22a1 or h22a4 head with jdm type-s camshafts)
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From: land of the sheep, home of the hypocrite
Re: H22 rocker arm machining
Just check clearances when assembling the head. By now there are probably multiple versions of the OEM and after market parts out there...
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From: abingdon, maryland, USA
Re: H22 rocker arm machining
im runnnin brian crower stage 2 n/a cams in my 2000 lude i have super tech valvetrain titanium retainers, springs (80 lbs), and flatfaced valves. my exhaust cam only on the vtec lobe is being chewed up but not only is it chewing up my cam its chewing my rocker arms up. any one got any ideas? o and the valve lash was set by my machine shop
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Re: H22 rocker arm machining
im runnnin brian crower stage 2 n/a cams in my 2000 lude i have super tech valvetrain titanium retainers, springs (80 lbs), and flatfaced valves. my exhaust cam only on the vtec lobe is being chewed up but not only is it chewing up my cam its chewing my rocker arms up. any one got any ideas? o and the valve lash was set by my machine shop
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From: abingdon, maryland, USA
Re: H22 rocker arm machining
well check this out brian crower and crower are 2 different companies its a big misconception i have a feeling brian crower cams are made in china while crower cams are made here
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From: Phoenix, AZ
B*a*n*n*e*d
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From: Pensacola, FL
Re: H22 rocker arm machining
________
Herbalaire Vaporizer
Last edited by q16racer; Mar 13, 2011 at 04:14 PM.
Re: H22 rocker arm machining
Im not going to get to in depth as ive posted it a crapload of times... I had the exact same issue with JDM cams and supertech spreings/retainers and ferrea valves... EX Vtak rockers were getting OWNED 2 sets in about 1500 miles each.
but i saw this:
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
THINK OF YOUR ROCKERS AND CAMS AS THE WEAR AREA AND TELL ME WHICH OIL YOU THINK WILL HELP....
and read about the lack of Zinc dithiophosphate and other additives in US manufactured oils (due to EPA standards)...
Switched from bandwagon Mobile 1 to 10-30 royal purple and have not had ANY issues whatsoever since.... EXACT same issue as you were having and listened to everyones opinions (rangiung from rocker material to me ****ing up my lash... neither which was the issue)... Tried the and not even a hint of wear in over 10K HARD BEATEN miles
TRUST ME IT WILL WORK
but i saw this:
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
THINK OF YOUR ROCKERS AND CAMS AS THE WEAR AREA AND TELL ME WHICH OIL YOU THINK WILL HELP....
and read about the lack of Zinc dithiophosphate and other additives in US manufactured oils (due to EPA standards)...
Switched from bandwagon Mobile 1 to 10-30 royal purple and have not had ANY issues whatsoever since.... EXACT same issue as you were having and listened to everyones opinions (rangiung from rocker material to me ****ing up my lash... neither which was the issue)... Tried the and not even a hint of wear in over 10K HARD BEATEN miles
TRUST ME IT WILL WORK
Last edited by extralargenog; Nov 23, 2009 at 01:46 AM.
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