It's about time i invest in some sort of engine management system. I've been looking around at a few different options: VAFC, Emanage, Hondata mostly. The engine in question is a h22a4 with a CAI, Prospeed Stamp, HKS superdrager exhaust. Coming soon is a high flow cat. Internals and head will remain untouched. Goal is to squeeze as much hp out of this relatively light build as possible for a STX 5th gen/trackwhore/daily driver, that will eventually be an H2 car.

So far, what i've gathered is that a VAFC is probably the most cost effective method of tuning this engine. With expected whp #'s in the high 170's to low-mid 180's. That's fine and all, and i've had a VAFC 1 that i got rid of, mainly because i wanted more. Emanage results on NA-bolt on engines have been few and far between, but what i've seen has been impressive. 198 whp for a h22 with I/H/E/HFCat/P, 171 whp for a NA B16 with similar mods. I'm not sure what the hondata results are like, but it seems like everyone agrees that it's overkill.

Timeracer has the EFI PMS on his STX build h22, but i don't know how that's working out for him just yet.

So, i'll pose the question, given the background and a ~$600 equip+tuning budget ($150/hr at church) what would you guys choose?

also:

-How useful is datalogging? messing around with my friend's emanage support tool, and having seen the readouts on my old VAFC, why are these numbers important? (Pressure, TPS, blah blah blah) when the most important number is obviously A/F? school me on what i can learn from the other numbers.

 

if you know what your doing, id go with uberdata and a wideband that supports datalogging and tune from there. you probably wont even see to much gains with limited bolt ons. im using uberdata and a plx m500 for my boosted set up.

but yeah, if i were you, id just go with a vafc

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by john d &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you know what your doing, id go with uberdata and a wideband that supports datalogging and tune from there. you probably wont even see to much gains with limited bolt ons. im using uberdata and a plx m500 for my boosted set up.

but yeah, if i were you, id just go with a vafc</TD></TR></TABLE>

i guess what's more important to me than cost, is getting the best performance possible out of it, since my modifications are limited by class rules, and i don't want to give up 2 drive wheels and 30 some odd whp to the STX WRX's out there.

 

You could of just asked. The EFI PMS is up and running finally and I was finally able to get rid of the V-AFC to control the VTEC engagement point. So right now it's purely the OEM ECU and the EFI PMS and some backyard tuning. I'll probably finalize the tuning next year after I can get the rear endlinks and front camber kit on.

Hondata:
If you're really concerned with the SCCA you're going to have to get a ruling on this, "Reprogrammed ECU may be used in the standard housing." What "standard" means is ambiguous here but essentially you won't be using your OEM ECU housing you'll be using a P72 or P28 ECU. You'll get the most out of your engine using this system as you can make an entirely new fuel/ignition map that fits your car.

E-manage:
After continued reading about this unit it's really a V-AFC w/ the ability to "guess" your car's timing. The reason why I say it's not better than the V-AFC is because to remove fuel the E-manage does it the same way the V-AFC does... Which is by fooling with the MAP sensor voltage, which in turn affects the timing. But to add fuel it does it correctly and increases pulse width. Which is why this unit is good for FI. Another thing is that the E-manage only taps (this is my understanding though, I haven't been able to verify this second part) into the signal line for the ignition. Which means that the E-manage actually doesn't have any idea what the timing of the car is, because it doesn't have a signal from the CYP sensor, and really does just "guess" when the timing should be fired based on the last firing sequence. I really don't like this method if that's the way it works. For retarding the timing it would be fine as it would act like an MSD BTM, but not for advancing the timing. I just don't like the idea that it just guesses when to fire.

V-AFC:
Cheapest, nice display. Adjusts fuel by adjusting the MAP sensor. Has no independant timing adjustment. Probably has the best visual appeal of the bunch. Will yeild gains but not on the top end, most of the gains found with this unit is the VTEC crossover which all of the above units can do as well.

[Shameless Plug] My V-AFC is for sale right now since I moved to the EFI PMS [/Shameless Plug]

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TimeRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You could of just asked. The EFI PMS is up and running finally and I was finally able to get rid of the V-AFC to control the VTEC engagement point. So right now it's purely the OEM ECU and the EFI PMS and some backyard tuning. I'll probably finalize the tuning next year after I can get the rear endlinks and front camber kit on.

Hondata:
If you're really concerned with the SCCA you're going to have to get a ruling on this, "Reprogrammed ECU may be used in the standard housing." What "standard" means is ambiguous here but essentially you won't be using your OEM ECU housing you'll be using a P72 or P28 ECU. You'll get the most out of your engine using this system as you can make an entirely new fuel/ignition map that fits your car.

E-manage:
After continued reading about this unit it's really a V-AFC w/ the ability to "guess" your car's timing. The reason why I say it's not better than the V-AFC is because to remove fuel the E-manage does it the same way the V-AFC does... Which is by fooling with the MAP sensor voltage, which in turn affects the timing. But to add fuel it does it correctly and increases pulse width. Which is why this unit is good for FI. Another thing is that the E-manage only taps (this is my understanding though, I haven't been able to verify this second part) into the signal line for the ignition. Which means that the E-manage actually doesn't have any idea what the timing of the car is, because it doesn't have a signal from the CYP sensor, and really does just "guess" when the timing should be fired based on the last firing sequence. I really don't like this method if that's the way it works. For retarding the timing it would be fine as it would act like an MSD BTM, but not for advancing the timing. I just don't like the idea that it just guesses when to fire.

V-AFC:
Cheapest, nice display. Adjusts fuel by adjusting the MAP sensor. Has no independant timing adjustment. Probably has the best visual appeal of the bunch. Will yeild gains but not on the top end, most of the gains found with this unit is the VTEC crossover which all of the above units can do as well.

[Shameless Plug] My V-AFC is for sale right now since I moved to the EFI PMS [/Shameless Plug]</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha, so how is the EFI PMS working out for you ?

i think the ruling might not even come down to that subsection, as section 14.10 D.1 of the ST class rules states:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The engine management system parameters and operations may be modified only via the methods listed below. Any and all modifications must meet or exceed the applicable US DOT emissions standards for the year, make, and model of the car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Though, i'm not sure whether the wording is dependent on a cali smog check (which the hondata def. wouldn't pass) or if it's just a raw emissions watermark that you'd have to "meet or exceed." As far as the standard housing is concerned, i think there's room for interpretation, as a "reprogrammed ECU" doesn't implicitly state that it has to be the OE ecu...Though, we all know how the SCCA would probably rule if i was ever protested.

But that's some pretty helpful insight, and i'll throw it into the EMS equation. thanks!

 

What are your thoughts and opinions on Uberdata?

 

Who knows about the OBDI Hondata for smog. For all I know the smog guy will sit there and scratch his head wondering why the car registers as OBDI. Though I have no doubt that you can pass the sniffer test. But then again that's only if someone protests you.

Uberdata is supposedly a good unit but you really need to find a group of people locally w/ it or to get it with you to make it worthwhile. There's no official tuners for it I believe and you need to buy the burner, connections, chips, among other things yourself.

The EFI PMS is a good unit, though it would be much better if I was able to get the associated software for something less than the $200+ they're asking for it. Since the throttle input levels aren't quite at the correct spots according to the V-AFC when I had it installed. There's 10 throttle points within the unit, but you can't program any but 3 w/ the handheld commander. Which is a little lame as the ability is there, but you can't do anything about it w/o the laptop software. But other than that it's been pretty good to me, though there is quite literally zero support for the EFI PMS for Honda's right now which means a lot of guess work when installing the unit and trying to customize it to what you want.

 

I use hondata, no problems so far, although I have heard of some S200's frying... I use a P28..

VAFC, to many problems, tough to tune.. I don't know, just tune it with hondata at Church and your good to go..

 

I have my OBD1 H22A running on uberdata.. my engine runs/idles better now that it's not looking for an EGR and the knock sensor is disabled.

There's noting overly complicated about it. http://www.efituningforless.com will "chip" the ECU for you and then you either tune it yourself (and buy all the stuff to do it RIGHT) or let your local automotive nerd tune it