Is the HFP suspension package just lowering springs or is it a comeplete spring/shock combo? Either way does anyone know what the drop is and what a competitive price is?

If there is another similar set-up out there please let me know. I am not looking for a big drop, just something sublte to get rid of the gap and stay about an inch or so above the tires all the way around.

Thanks ahead of time!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by giff74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is the HFP suspension package...a comeplete spring/shock combo?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, it is.

You might want to look at and think about the Mugen Sport Suspension.

Like the OEM HFP package, it is a no-brainer and sold with a specific drop, specific spring and damping rates and no adjustability.

Several of us here seem to like it, but I cannot compare it with the HFP suspension.

 

What kind of drop is the Mugen? How much?

Does anyone know of any non-coilover setups that will give the approximate 1 inch of gap. This is for dailey driving, just something to help reduce roll and a subtle drop.

Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by giff74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What kind of drop is the Mugen? How much?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The Mugen SS will cost about $1000, maybe a little less if you find somebody who has King Motorsports permission to offer a group buy or special deal.

It's not a big drop...an inch or less, I'd say.

The trouble with McPherson suspensions is that you open up Pandora's box when you do any kind of drop or change in OEM suspension geometry.

A lot of people who've dropped their EP3 or DC5 complain that the cars attain some visual positive camber in the front. It was always there but not quite so visible until they dropped the car too much, and it's a part of making sure the car steers the way it should. If you put a camber kit on it to increase the negative camber visually, then you've introduced a host of other issues and you will need to increase negative camber in the rear in order to keep the car's attitude correct.

I'm not explaining this very well, but take it from me that a suspension designer for the EP3 and DC5 really needs to know what he's doing.

We could talk for a couple of hours about the bump steer phenomenon inherent in McPherson Front-Front designs and how you can complicate your life unnecessarily by dropping one of these cars.

So, unless you're a suspension expert or unless you intend to seriously track the car, I think that for most of us the Mugen SS or something similarly well designed, is the way to go.

You'll find things cheaper, but you could just be opening up that box of trouble I'm talking about.

 

I am neither a suspension expert nor someone who will have their EP3 at the track very often, but if the Mugen gives only a marginal drop what is being gained? A higher spring rate, something that tracks a little better with less roll in the corners??

I guess in a nutshell the above is what I am looking for, less roll, a sublte drop. I surely dont want to create any issues with the geometry as I am planning on keeping this car for years. Are there any choices that will accomplish what I am looking for a little cheaper than the Mugen setup? I guess the whole setup on these cars are just a little more complicated than my Jetta, it was just throw the springs on and go and replace the shocks when they go with better ones.

 

The Mugen SS is the only relatively cheap suspension for the EP3 that I am comfortable recommending.

However, if you can hang in there a while, Steve at Omnipower is working on an EP3 suspension.

His first attempt caused him to go back to the drawing board, but a retail version of the replacement is probably not too many weeks away. The Omnipower suspension should be a cheaper than the Mugen and offer a greater range of adjustment and spring rates at the possible expense of having to deal with the McPherson "issues" if you don't know what you're doing.

I <u>wish</u> I could recommend something cheaper than the Mugen SS...but I really can't. Sorry.

 

i have the mugen ss and i highly recommend it. alot of people have issues with their tie rods after a drop and the mugen kit is the only one that i saw that compensates for that. by they way, the front camber was -0.2 after the drop so i didn't need to adjust it. however, the rear was off, not by much, but i did put the spc camber kit on the back. the drop is more like 1.5 inches. here is the link to the kingmotorsports website, which is where i bought it from.

"After over 2 years of extensive development Mugen has released their Sport Suspension kit for the 02-03 Civic Si and RSX. Compression and rebound shock calibrations were carefully chosen to bring out the best of the EP3/DC5 chassis. Mugen has chosen spring rates that result in a sporty yet subtle ride with outstanding handling. Mugen has also addressed any bumpsteer issues with the relocation of the steering arm. This is the suspension kit you have been waiting for!! Weighs the same as it's stock couterparts."

http://kingmotorsports.com/pro...Civic

 

I don't have the mugen ss kit but I have a guy I knew with it on and it was very nice. mugen ss + JDM ITR rear sway is one of the best combos for the street IMO.

 

LOL... From all the mounting evidence, I'd say the poster had better just start saving for the Mugen SS.

 

Mugen Sport Suspension here too. They retail for $1050. It's a very nice setup for someone that wants to install and go. You won't have any bumpstop issues or issues of scraping from having the car too low. On track the car feels great, but it shines on the street.

-Victor

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LOL... From all the mounting evidence, I'd say the poster had better just start saving for the Mugen SS. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess I cant argue with that!!!!

Are these a one piece set? I mean are the shocks and springs a permanent set, that is what it sounds like to me. I only ask, because what happens if you blow a shock?

It does sound like these are the way to go with the right sway bar. Are they really as simple as put them on the car and have an alignment and I am ready to go. No camber kit required and no adjustments to the bumpstop?

Thanks for all the feedback!

PS What is the story on the Omnipower stuff? I am not familiar with this group. I am only picking the car up tonight so I could waite a couple weeks to get the suspension tuned. Will this package be comparable to the Mugen as far as performance and price?

 

Mugen SS, totally flat in the corners, subtle drop, awesome handling, what more can we/I say.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by giff74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I only ask, because what happens if you blow a shock?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you blow a shock, you're in trouble. I know, because I did it.

I didn't really blow one, but I bent the shaft in one of those famous NoVA potholes up here, and the bent shaft wore against the seals and, well...you could tell the shock wasn't going to last long.

It took King Motorsports about three months to decide that they <u>could</u> order just two struts, but not the shocks. Then they said it'd take another two months to get the set of two.

I'm afraid I lost my temper and ended up buying a new, complete Mugen SS because I just wasn't going to wait any longer and was tired of a bouncy wheel on my commuter car.

So in recommending the Mugen SS as a reasonable solution for most daily driver, lightly modified EP3 we have to admit that if you blow a shock you are going to have a devil of a time getting a replacement without buying a complete new set...but it <u>can</u> be done and I dare say that after my little tantrum they might be prepared to move on it a little faster than five months. LOL....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It does sound like these are the way to go with the right sway bar. Are they really as simple as put them on the car and have an alignment and I am ready to go. No camber kit required and no adjustments to the bumpstop?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, it's that easy. You'll notice one person saying that he got a camber kit in the rear but it's not really necessary. After the Mugen SS you will notice a little more negative camber in the rear, but if you ask King they'll tell you outright that the system was designed not to need any camber adjustment.

Just do the toe in and make sure the thrust angle is right and the steering wheel's straight, and that's about it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PS What is the story on the Omnipower stuff? I am not familiar with this group. I am only picking the car up tonight so I could waite a couple weeks to get the suspension tuned. Will this package be comparable to the Mugen as far as performance and price?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Omnipower is owned by a fellow named Steve Rothenbueler. This name might sound familiar because he's known for having built some World Championship-winning motors for some pretty famous people.

His aim is to build the kind of equipment that people are likely to want for their Hondas, and to build the equipment of a higher quality and lower cost than you might expect.

I have no doubt that his EP3 coilover system will be cheaper than the Mugen SS by a couple hundred dollars, and it'll probably also provide height adjustment where the Mugen does not.

I have no idea, however, when he will be finished with the redesign and finished with the testing that will be required. The Honda McPherson design is just hell to fool with and a lot of trouble to get right.

 

Yup, I also have the Mugen SS on my EP. I don't think I'll go with anything else as that's how satisfied I am with them.

 

Thanks for all the feedback guys!!

I finally picked up the car tonight and suspension will be the first thing on the list. I hadnt actually driven an Si in several years and since the dealer had to trade for it there was no way to drive before I bought it, but I was pleasantly surprised by the power delivery, not nearly as slow rolling as I feared, although I didnt push it very hard with only 82 miles on it when I picked it up. Now I just have to convince my wife I need to drop another $1000 for the Mugen setup, I guess it will have to waite until after the holidays.

Do any of you know if there is anyone even a little cheaper than King right now?

George you seem to be the knower of all things EP3, what size, make and model tires are you recommending for good dry/wet grip? The car will hardly ever see a road course and will never have to see snow.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by giff74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">George you seem to be the knower of all things EP3, what size, make and model tires are you recommending for good dry/wet grip? The car will hardly ever see a road course and will never have to see snow.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am not sure that I am going to be a lot of help to you there, but I'll tell you what I do.

I'm in Virginia, so I <u>do</u> have to worry about snow and ice.

I have Falken Ziex 512 on my car, size 225-40-16. They are very grippy in the dry, very good with water and snow, and wear well for a tyre that doesn't cost anything.

I have also had Falken Azenis on this car, size 215-45-16. If you do not have to worry about cold weather, then you can't beat Azenis for good dry grip. As long as the tread pattern's not worn down and you're not driving through standing water, they're also fine in the wet.

It's significant that a lot of ITR NASA-Virginia people use Azenis as their rain tyres at the track.

The Azenis are well on the way to being a hybrid compound, and a lot of people use them at the track, wet or dry, because they're just that good and you don't have to worry about changing tyres when you get to the track.

They're very cheap and very grippy. But they're also slightly hard-core if you're not expecting what you're getting. That is to say, as they wear they become very noisy.

This driver does not like to pay a lot of money for "wear items" and tyres can turn into too big an expenditure if you're not careful. It seems to me that a couple of Falken lines just provide too much performance for the money not to buy them.

As an actual track tyre, I use Toyo RA-1, but that's because the things last long enough that the slightly higher price is offset. $118/ea shipped for Toyo RA-1 205-50-15 provides a lot more grip than $100/ea shipped for Falken Azenis 215-45-16.

You've got me rambling on again.

I think in your case if you can stand the noise, I'd find an Azenis size for my car. If you can't stand the noise, I'd go with the Ziex 512 even though you won't really need the all-season protection.

 

So if I am understanding things correctly; a Mugen SS setup, with a good rear stabilizer bar and some Azenis and i would have a really good handling EP3???

Has anyone noticed much difference with their tires with the different sized 16's, 205/55, 215/50 or 225/40? I would think the 225/40 would be the way to go, shorter sidewall on all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by giff74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So if I am understanding things correctly; a Mugen SS setup, with a good rear stabilizer bar and some Azenis and i would have a really good handling EP3???</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, IMHO, that is a nice handling setup.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has anyone noticed much difference with their tires with the different sized 16's, 205/55, 215/50 or 225/40? I would think the 225/40 would be the way to go, shorter sidewall on all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

In my experience, 215-45-16 was the best handling, just because it was Azenis instead of 512's.

I have 225-40-16 now just to maximise the tread width with all-season tyres.

 

Mugen SS is a nice choice for a street/track driven EP3 or DC5. Everyone hit on the high points... Basically you are getting a complete, engineered, suspension that offers good ride quality and nice improvements in handling. Mugen has addressed the major issues inherent in the EP3 suspension geometry. You get a ready to bolt-in kit for just over $1000. That includes brand new top hats/bearings, struts, springs, and Mugen hard rubber bushings.

As for replacement parts... Depending on the part and the timing, the wait can be fairly long. I wish there were more we could do, but in some cases we're at the mercy of the manufacturer and the circumstances. In most cases you won't have to worry about replacement parts on Mugen products... on ther flip side our 1998 ITR Project car has the Mugen Low Down suspension plus 111,000 miles on it. Nothing has been replaced in the Low Down suspension.

Overall, IMHO it's one of the better values on the market right now.

 

You all have given me lots of great information. If I understand George correctly the very crux of the problem with EP3 suspenions is that to much tinkering leads to issues with the geometry that is not easily fixed and if the new shock/spring combo doesnt complement one another the ride will go to hell regardless of the camber.

This leads me to one last question. What about using a shock spring combo of something like a set up of Eibach Sportlines or the Pro-kit with a damper like the Tokico's that are adjustable? This keeps the drop of the car to something reasonable, I think 1 or 1.5 inches and will allow for changes in the dampening. I guess what I finds appealing here is that I can keep the softer ride for the street and turn things up for the rare track appearence the car will make. I have no desire to change ride heights, but changing the stiffness to allow for more responsiveness at an autocross would be great and this setup would seem to give a good bang for the buck.

Let me know what you guys think?

Thanks

 

I would still go ITR rear sway and mugen ss.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aznbo1626 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would still go ITR rear sway and mugen ss.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Where can I get the sway bar and how much should it cost?

 

http://store.yahoo.com/yhst-14....html

Since we're on the subject for rear sway, how is Progress Tech?