I have a 99 Accord i4 w/ FMAX kit. Originally I had the 2 extra 440cc injectors with MF2. I dumped those and recently put in DSM 450's. To tune I only have the Fields controller which adjust fuel by every 1000 rpms. I was going to get a wideband, but that Fields unit just has too wide of a spectrum to adjust for. So what should I get: Hondata, Greddy E-Manage, etc?

Keep in mind there it is not being built and will only be running 9psi. It is not my daily driver but I want it to be that this spring. I don't want to do AEM EMS; it costs too much. Thanks.

 

Hondata WILL work on 6th gens after many modifications,but most people dont feel like bothering to do all that work and it's generally not worth it.

Greddy Emanage is an OK solution to your boosting problem.

EMS, though expensive, is a goot solution. it allows for easy precise tunability.

 

Hondata would be nice, but the time and cost of switching to an OBD1 and getting all the software is ridiculous. I was thinking the e-manage might be my best solution. The EMS would be great but $1500?? I don't know what to do.

 

Emanage will be good with your injector setup. If you want to find a ems, im Kteller8. He has a brand new one that he needs to unload.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accordselux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">EMS, though expensive, is a goot solution. it allows for easy precise tunability.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wouldn't call the AEM EMS easy. I got to take a look at notoriousB's EMS software and its pretty complex. its a great system, but way above my head. Personally I'd be taking my car to a reputable AEM tuner.

why not just run the hack? its fairly reliable.

 

I have the Fields VTEC controller which adjust VTEC engagemnt and also adjusts the fuel curve +/- 30% every 1000 RPM's. That is just too broad of a spectrum to adjust fuel. I have the 450's and this thing is just dumped fuel at idle and my car is sputtering. I am even getting a code: MAP/BARO High Input Circuit. So I need to get a decent FMU. I don't know how much fuel to pull at idle and I dont want to pull too much in 1000-2000 RPM b/c I dont wanna blow anything up.

 

For that low of boost setting I would go with either the greddy e-manage witch is what I used to have of the AFC hack. The hack is alot more flexable the the fields controller and the e-manage just has even more ajustment then the afc.

Right now I'm trying to get the car to idle so I can get it on a trailor and to a dyno. I just installed the EMS over the weekend and yes it is very complex to operate.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skabone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I wouldn't call the AEM EMS easy. I got to take a look at notoriousB's EMS software and its pretty complex. its a great system, but way above my head. Personally I'd be taking my car to a reputable AEM tuner.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

you're missing all the fun that way!

The EMS is very complex and a steep learning curve, but works AWESOME.

Hondata you need to swap to OBD1 and rig up a 2-wire IACV. PITA IMO, especially if you have to get OBD2 emissions checked.

If you look hard enough you can find an AEM EMS for ~$900-1k (used)

The fields controller actually doesn't have a broad enough spectrum for what you need.

I ran the hack in my 6th gen turbo w/ DSM 450s and my fuel trims were as follows (tuned w/ a wideband as best possible):

1000 to 4600 RPMs was -40
5200 was -41
5600 and up was -42

Sounds to me like you can't remove enough fuel with the fields controller.

Get the EMS and don't look back IMO. Don't go cheap on fuel management. I've already replaced one motor due to crappy fueling.......

-B

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbowa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For that low of boost setting I would go with either the greddy e-manage witch is what I used to have of the AFC hack. The hack is alot more flexable the the fields controller and the e-manage just has even more ajustment then the afc.

Right now I'm trying to get the car to idle so I can get it on a trailor and to a dyno. I just installed the EMS over the weekend and yes it is very complex to operate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

but for the $$$ you spend on e-manage and all the harnesses for injectors and timing (&gt; $400), you're already more than 1/2 way to buying an EMS.

Do you have a 6th gen? PM me I'll share my .CAL file if it might help you out. I'm using boost comp for the fuel maps & have 450 cc DSM injectors.

 

Ooops when I meant easy I meant with a good tuner and a dyno, and by easy I meant more fine tuning adjustments...or something.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by notoriousB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The fields controller actually doesn't have a broad enough spectrum for what you need.

I ran the hack in my 6th gen turbo w/ DSM 450s and my fuel trims were as follows (tuned w/ a wideband as best possible):

1000 to 4600 RPMs was -40
5200 was -41
5600 and up was -42

Sounds to me like you can't remove enough fuel with the fields controller.

Get the EMS and don't look back IMO. Don't go cheap on fuel management. I've already replaced one motor due to crappy fueling.......

-B</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're telling me that you were pulling that much fuel during VTEC. You actually had negative fuel percentages during high RPM's, meaning you were negative 41 from 5000 to 5500??

 

Yes, you have to pull approx. 40% of the stock ECU's injector signal just to idle DSM 450's.

Think about it: Stock injectors are 240cc, so your DSM's are almost 2x the size. If you send the stock ECU injector pulse to them you're dumping 2x more fuel than your car usually gets in every injector pulse, and the car won't run worth a damn. (FAR too rich)

 

vafc 2 will work you can change fuel points and theres more points to adj...

just becareful with using those things. when you adj fuel with those piggy backs its actually fooling the map sensor and changing the timing... not bing adj independantly

 

[QUOTE=notoriousB]

but for the $$$ you spend on e-manage and all the harnesses for injectors and timing (&gt; $400), you're already more than 1/2 way to buying an EMS.

But I had to look really hard and for a new EMS it was still over $1100. And that was REALLY looking. You can prob. get a better deal used. But I personally would never buy any used auto electronics. To each his owen I guess on that one.

I'm putting my new intercooler on new. I have to cut the bumper support and then get the piping cut. Once done and I have enough money I'll have it tuned. I'm expecting I'll have to pay about $300-400 to get it done right.

 

I just think that the emanage might be my best solution since I can datalog, adjust some timing, adjust fuel at set rpms (but what adjustments in terms of fuel can you make and at what rpms??) for around a few hundred. This car will not see more than 9psi ever and it will not be built internally. So I dont wanna spend the moeny on the EMS. What do you guys think? B/c I am not liking the hack setup anymore. I want something better that will work with an OBD2 computer.

 

With the tuning software it will give you a 16x16 fuel and ignition map's that you can adjust. The RPM points can be adjusted according to what you need to be most helpful at.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by notoriousB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, you have to pull approx. 40% of the stock ECU's injector signal just to idle DSM 450's.

Think about it: Stock injectors are 240cc, so your DSM's are almost 2x the size. If you send the stock ECU injector pulse to them you're dumping 2x more fuel than your car usually gets in every injector pulse, and the car won't run worth a damn. (FAR too rich)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I understand about pulling that much fuel at idle but you still are pullin that much fuel during higher RPM's?? If so wouldnt it be just like having stock injectors supporting fuel for almost twice the hp?

 

replied to your IM - in short, no, because the ECU will sense the additional air from the turbo (up to ~10 psi) and compensate the fuel accordingly. you can't use a missing link with this setup, the MAP sensor must see boost.

for anyone reading this here is good info on the hack that I recommend reading that explains these issues in detail:

AFC hack "master thread"
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=137901

AFC hack timing problems explained. And a BTM will not fix them.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=841443

 

notoriousB thanks for all the help. I've read the archived thread on the AFC hack and wiring it up as you would straight from the directions and pulling fuel to lower the voltage so the ECU doesn't throw a code under 10psi. Here is my problem, though. I have the Fields SFC-VTEC Controller. It was wired up normally but I can only pull 30% and I have 450's so what do I do?

 

Not one person has said one word about uberdata??? It will cost you a hell of a lot less than all that ****, dont waste money.

 

To keep safe save and drop the cash and i decent EMS, i have used a AEM EMS and was very pleased for all motor applications, best friend had one for his 12psi turbo I-4 Integra and loved the turn out on the daily driving comfort and reliabilty from the tune. Best of luck in your decision and outcome

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by truesleeper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not one person has said one word about uberdata??? It will cost you a hell of a lot less than all that ****, dont waste money.</TD></TR></TABLE>

OBD1 conversion was mentioned and nixed. It's a PITA for 6th gen accords. Plus there is almost ZERO support for the F-series on uberdata. I looked into it and decided against due to the IACV.

Excelerate, I think you're hosed for the "hack" using your Fields controller, you won't be able to pull enough fuel and will run incredibly rich - rich enough to wash the oil off your cylinder walls and fry your motor. You may want to look into an SAFC...