I did a quick search but couldnt find much in the way of help or assistance.......my question is that i currently own a mazdaspeed protege that i autox about 5 times this past season. As im entering engineering school i decided to sell my msp and pick up a cheap eg or ek to keep me from the hells of debt. anyway i want to do more hpde and other road racing events and periodic autox events.....what motor setup do u recommend? since the msp is in the ds class with the itr i really apperciated the design and overall power of the b18c5....also my cousin had a b18c5 in his 96 coupe and its just an awesome motor.....but the msp has be stuck on the turbo bug.....should i just swap a b18c5 in or throw a b20 and turbo it? while the b18 is more simple and reliable in terms of sustained racing.....the turbo may offer more power? i dont care about class rules for autox....that **** really pissed me off when i was dealin with my msp hence y i rather just go to hpde and get my racing addiction fullfilled there.....what do you guys run in hpde's and autox? as of now im leanin towards a b18c5....just though i would grab some more ideas

 

Neither.

Add some suspension, tires and drive the thing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AutoBoxEng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i dont care about class rules for autox....that **** really pissed me off when i was dealin with my msp hence y i rather just go to hpde and get my racing addiction fullfilled there...</TD></TR></TABLE>

HPDE's are racing? They certainly aren't speed contests

 

Hemi

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Neither.

Add some suspension, tires and drive the thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you had to sell your Protege because of money, I'd stick with r-jay's suggestion... or skip the suspension and tires.

Turbo is definitely not the way to go if you have a concern about reliability/budget. If you have the money set aside in savings for a new motor, then turbo it!!! Get an oil cooler, radiator, Hondata/Uberdata and Wheeee.....

-Chris

Edit, I shouldn't have even posted... I mean it's your call, you know what you can afford. People turbo hondas and run them at HPDE's... more people turbo and drag race... you figure out what you wanna do.

 

if you really want a good amount of power go turbo, but be prepared to spend money to make it work well and not blow up. especially when it comes to doing track events.

my vote is for the C5 motor but im a little biased (see sig) they are great motors and you can really rev the **** out of them. and for power im used to it now but its still really fast. and the reliability is great. with a few bolt ons and tuning 180 or so whp is capable. and when it comes to the track it is an awesome motor, very simple and powerful what more do you need.

just my two cents.
misha

 

get the c5 and turbo it use the gt28rs and you got a killer setup.

check tony the tigers gsr, im sure it would do great

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1027496

but it would prolly cost a little

 

You can road race a turbo Honda without it blowing up... I've done it plenty of times and it's still running very strong. The problem is that most of these kids with turbo Hondas build grenade setups, don't tune it properly or intelligently, and/or neglect it. What works on the street or for a few seconds in the 1/4 mile is a lot different from what works for a road racing car.

If you take a look at factory turbo cars, you'll find that they don't come with 8000+ rpm redlines, aren't tuned for maximum power, often have extra cooling (and not just to the radiator), etc. There are very good reasons for all of this, and you really need to understand why; completely ignoring them is just asking for problems. I would not turbo a high revving engine (7000 rpm is pushing it as it is), nor would I tune the fuel and ignition for maximum power... Reliability and consistent performance is much more important.

I'm running a B18B with stock internals and a small custom built T3 turbo @ 7 psi... The fuel is all electronically controlled (no super high fuel pressure BS) and tuned to 12.5:1 with plenty of fuel under partial throttle and pre-boost. I really didn't expect the engine to survive for anywhere near this long... I was planning to build up another block that has been sitting in my garage, but the current setup has really surprised me and proven itself to be quite reliable. Just goes to show how reliable stock internals can be when you do things right and keep it well maintained. The biggest problem by far is heat, but the obvious solution is to get more air flow through the radiator and engine bay. Shifting at 6500 rpm as opposed to 7000 helps a bit too, and doesn't cost much performance at all.

It's a blast to race it, but turbo cars are more expensive to build and maintain (road racing is expensive enough already), and you can't always find a suitable class to race it in. I have no regrets and would do it all over again, but you'll usually get much more bang-for-the-buck with your lap times if you concentrate on your performance in the turns.

 

apperciate the ideas and non-flamitory comments......as of right now im most likely going to just plan a c5 swap and se ehow it goes......for the sake of simplicity and cost effectiveness i agree its a better setup....thanks again

 

How is buying a $4k motor swap keeping you out of debt?

RJ - scratching head..... maybe he just doesnt get it

 

when you have money to buy something....you dont have debt.......i never said im chargin all this on my magical platnium card ....im worried once the swap is done, i dont want to have to worry about other large payments on anything besides regular maintence from racing and daily use (which i do on the msp right now, i tore up the stock potenzas in under 20k miles ) im selling my new car that im making payments on because i do not have 13000 in cash to pay it off, so im selling it and takin my cash to pay off a cheaper car with the engine setup i want so i have no payments to worry about.......thanks for your post.....im lookin at runnin either tein or buddy club coilovers (maybe koni/gc setup) and toyo ra-1 tires also....as i stated ive autox my msp this last season and would not sacrifice my money towards the chassis/suspension....thanks


Modified by AutoBox at 11:48 PM 12/6/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AutoBox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AutoBoxEng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> </TD></TR></TABLE>

Multiple logins?
(Edit, looks like you just remembered your login/password from January. )


Sounds like you're gonna be busy with your car(s), good luck with the project.

-Chris

 

yes, i poped in here back in january when my nephew picked up his c5 civic coupe........i didnt find the orig login info until today...i rock...i know

thanks, im still plannin everything out (lookin at all the diferen suspension setups ppl are runnin) but im hopin to get it all squared away before the season starts.....

 

If you can't afford the debt now, what do you expect to do if you ball the car up on track?

Just a thought.

 

Yea, start doing some track days...then come back to this decision to see if you can even afford it.

 

i must be using a different meaning for debt.....when i think of debt i think of money i dont have that requires a credit card or payments.......i dont want a car payment while im in school for my engineering ba degree because i plan to cut back the hours i work right now at a engineering firm........i have the cash to purchase a swap or build a motor and turbo it........if i crash the car on the track then thats my own fault for pushin too much and the car will sit until i have the cash to fix it.....i just dont want to have to build new motors or anythng major once the inital swap is done, just a simple car i can enjoy on the track like i enjoyed my msp when i raced it this year, if i can afford to race my new car that im making payments on....i dont see an issue affording a car thats half the price of mine racing.......take a second and read my posts please...ive stated that the swap is being paid with cash (no debt)....although i dont have enough cash to pay off my new car (which is debt cus i still owe 13g's) so im takin this option instead......i want this project done before the '05 scca season and i plan to drive the car in a few audi club and nasa events with a group of guys ive ran my msp with......i just asked which setup i should run....please stay on the topic and stop giving me finanical help you have no clue about.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AutoBoxEng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ii dont want a car payment while im in school ........i have the cash to purchase a swap or build a motor and turbo it........ </TD></TR></TABLE>

Then pay off the car early... or pay a big chunk of it down, refinance and keep the rest in the bank for payments.

 

Sell your "MSP". 92-95CX hatch, B16, TB/WP, bolt-on's, Koni/GC's, Carbotech's/Motul, cheap 15's w/ Azenis/MX's. You can find everything here for pretty cheap or REALLY cheap used. Like the Bolt-on's and suspension pieces. Pretty much a simple recipe for track goodness. You could honestly do that for about $8k. I don't know how much you were looking to spend, but why bother with a $6K swap? Or a $6K - 15K+ turbo build? Not worth it while you are in school. I mean hell that's the reason you're selling your new car right? Trust me you don't need a red valve cover or b00000000000000000000st to have fun on track. Take that money you saved and put it away and use it spend on maintenance, tires, brake pads, track days, auto-x etc... Use your money you make at school for useful things....like Chicken Cheese steak subs India Pale Ale's.

 

Food for thought: What's the reliable HP potential for a *stock* b18c5 (~$4500) if you boost it? Around 300 whp. What's the reliable HP potential for a *stock* b18c1 (~$3200) if you boost it? Around 300 whp. What's the reliable HP potential for a *stock* b16a (~$2200) if you boost it? Around 300 whp.

Additional food for thought: What's the reliable HP potential for a b16a (~$2200) with an additional $2000 worth of bottom end work, then boosted? Hmmmm.

Not that I'd go any of these routes myself if I were a college student...

 

i am in the process of building my fi motor for my sol! It is costly to do it right! I say do a swap and behappy with it. if it makes it a season then boost it.

Suspension and wheels and tires are a lot better way to spend your money if your a die hard autox/hpde guy!!!!!!!!!!!