What are the differences between the Toda C cams and the Skunk stage 2 and 3 cams? .. which would be the best... obviously a stage 3 would be better than the stage 2.. but what are the differences...

also.. what exactly do I need to upgrade to run the Toda cams and the skunk stage 3 cams outside of dual valve springs and titanium retainers.. note that the car is a track car and will only be operating in the high rpm ranges...

 

no it depends on yoru setup

 

IMO the Toda's are for more of an all out Race motor, Toda Cs can be used on the streets but IMO if I had to choose between the 3 the Skunk stage 2s are the best all around street cam, Toda Cs and Skunk 3s need lots of compression in order to be used to maximum efficiency, to get everything out of the cam that it has to offer, so like many people will probably tell you it really depends on your set up. Between the Skunk2 cams the stage2s have shown to make more mid range power than the stage3, but the stage3s make more top end power than the stage2s, again all depending on set up, there are many topics on this site that we all talk about having to deal with this exact topic, there thats my 2 cents.

 

well from what i have seen toda are hard to retain stock idle. i have seen a setup with skunk2 stage 2's and seemed like a pretty stock idle. then another buddy has a crvtec with je pistons and toda spec b's and his idle is all over the place. it is not very streetable for an everyday rush hour driver. you got to rev it alittle more then a stock car to get it to move

 

i use toda C and it idle fine..i posted my dyno result in the TECH section.. if i have the chance i wud like to try the m22,m24 & s2s2..and yes,its all depends on ur set up.

 

Man, if I had a dime for every time someone makes a thread on this topic.............

I've seen MANY dyno graph's showing a S2S2 making more peak hp over a Toda C. The S2S3's are an awesome cam, but you need huge compression to run them(13.0-+) And speaking of which, one of the dyno gods on this site, Tbone, just recently switched to the BC 4's and gained like 18 whp OVER the S2S3's, something silly like that.....I don't like Toda's. I think they are over-priced, and the only way that I would EVER run them is for maybe a road race cam, as they do produce good torque #'s.

Ever used the search button??

 

clean rice... fyi i did use the search option first.. i am just looking to get a specific answer to my question.. and if people were to read.. the car is a TRACK car... not every day driver.. It will not touch the streets other than to be towed to a track event.

What are some good pistons and rods (even if there stock) to run the TODA C cams? also note that the car runs on 94 octane and 100 octane.. depending on the availabilty of 100 at the track events.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ^AnDre^ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What are the differences between the Toda C cams and the Skunk stage 2 and 3 cams? .. which would be the best... obviously a stage 3 would be better than the stage 2.. but what are the differences...

also.. what exactly do I need to upgrade to run the Toda cams and the skunk stage 3 cams outside of dual valve springs and titanium retainers.. note that the car is a track car and will only be operating in the high rpm ranges...</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think you're asking some pretty basic questions if you're trying to build a race car...if you're trying to build a race car, i would assume that you know what the differences of the cams you listed...those cams are pretty much the most talked about cams on H-T...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ^AnDre^ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What are the differences between the Toda C cams and the Skunk stage 2 and 3 cams? .. which would be the best... obviously a stage 3 would be better than the stage 2.. but what are the differences...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
not really i believe on tbone's engine stage 2 made more power.

 

post what is your set up then people can help out. I don't even understand how you want to make a "TRACK CAR" and you have no clue what cams, pistons and rods to use

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stock93cx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
not really i believe on tbone's engine stage 2 made more power. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think the Stage2s made more midrange on his motor but the Stage3s made I think 8+ more whp top end.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=946943, heres the dyno

 

I am begining to make a track car for Fun.. for my personal enjoyment...ive done racing series with formula 1600 cars..however, they do all the engine work and repairs for you in exchange for the entrance fee you paid to them.

I know a bit about engine mechanics but not everything.. do remember that everyone needs to start learning from somewhere so stop killing me on that... plus i would be able to answer my own questions if skunk were to post the duriation and lift details of their cams somewhere on the web.. cuz that would help me out.

once again... i am just startgin this and looking right now to do it for fun.. i make the point that its a track car .. becuase it is.. it is not street legal right now and I plan to keep it that way... i have a daily driver...

i am asking these questions so I dont have to end up buying all 3 of them testing them out and then reselling them...a little co-operation and a little less flamming would be nice.. cuz im sure all of you at one point in time knew just as much as i did.. possibly less...

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=756869

Hopefully this helps Andre, what kind of motors do you use in the Formula 1600, how much different are they from B series motors? Ohh yeah, good luck.

 

not flaming anybody, but just wanted to say how the honda world contradicts itself.

Someone asks what is the best cam for drag racing, and everyone says something other than TODA, because they claim the other cam is better for top end and drag racing.

but when someone asks, what wins down the strip.......
Everyone says Torque!!!!! WTF!!!!

Peak HP numbers doesnt always mean faster acceleration and most of the time the TODA cams will make a broader tq curve vs a Skunk or Jun cam, even with the same displacement.

I have Toda B cams and they have the same primaries as the Toda C's. the idle purrs like a kitten.

 

i would have though the idle would have more to do with tuning as i've seen a few toda c equipped cars idling like stockies.

back on topic- have you considered going for vtec killer cams at the track? you wouldn't really be dropping out of vtec around a circuit- provided you were running the right gear ratios. idle and low end tractability aren't all that important on track cars

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slimbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">back on topic- have you considered going for vtec killer cams at the track? you wouldn't really be dropping out of vtec around a circuit- provided you were running the right gear ratios. idle and low end tractability aren't all that important on track cars </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah Andre what kind of "track" car are you building because I agree with Slimbo on those Vtec Killers for a Auto X car.

 

I've got a 89 civic dx set up as a road track / auto x car .... just dropped in a b18c5 I was able to pick up off a friend for a good price.. i was debating to use the vtec killer cams.. however i cant really afford to spend that much.. I would love to.. but at $1800 its quite expensive comming out of my pocket.. plus i gotta spend a bit to do a full race port plus the valves, valve springs and titanium retainers...

also what i dont understand.. which im tryin to but dosent really make sense is.. what ecu should I be using with the b18c5... as well.. do i need to run a hondata unit? .. i dont really understand how to properly tune it and exactly what kind of gains you can expect from one.. seeing how expensive they can get

 

HONDATA is the only way to go unless you have big $$$$ and can buy like an AEM EMS unit, well whats gonna be tough for you is the fact that you have an 89 Civic, what year is the motor that you have? Had you already had a VTEC motor in this car? If so I would try to get like a PWO or a PR3 ECU, then have that programed with a HONDATA unit.

 

no vtec in it yet.. only a b18b ... the b18c5 is still sitting beside my car right now.. i wanna know exactly what i need so i do it once and do it right.. u kno... just the whole ecu and hondata thing is screwin me up majorly...

can someone tell me exactly which ecu and hondata model I should be running for an 89 civic dx with a JDM b18c5 Type r in it... also let me know if i need any obd conversions to run it... help me solve my problems.. i know a bit bout mechanics.. but jack all about engine management systems...

 

Andre, I would go here because your going to need a wiring harness to wire up VTEC for your motor so you can plug in a VTEC ecu, http://www.hasport.com, also you can ask them questions about doing a VTEC swap in your car and what other components you might need for your swap, hopefully that all helps.

 

Here are my Toda C's at idle on a stock B18C5. After the car was tuned and cams were adjusted the idle was not very smooth.

Right click and save as.
http://www.kosmodog.com/idle.mpg

 

i'de say forget about TODA, and run a straight Skunk2 setup with the Skunk2 ECU