-> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ??

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Old Nov 21, 2004 | 02:00 PM
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Default -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ??

So I have a complete LS motor to play with but not alot of $$$ to dump in it. And I know a guy with a GSR crank with Eagle rods and Wiseco Pistons for sale used for very reasonable. And another guy with a B Series STR block guard FS for $50.

1. So if I took the LS block and tapped in the block guard, then had it bored/honed for the pistons ( they're 81.5s ) would that be a cheap and pretty reliable bottom end for a min of 350 and max of 400whp?

2. Does that plan work? GSR crank rods and 81.5mm GSR pistons in an LS block?


FYI: Plan is to be tuned with Hondata

Open to suggestions (other than " just spend a **** ton and sleeve it") and any valid points.

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Old Nov 21, 2004 | 03:09 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

I woulld stick w/ the LS crank. Spend the money on some forged pistons and some rods ( I see alot of eagles for sale on here cheap). I have basically the same plans for over the winter. In stock sleeves we trust

Phil
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Old Nov 21, 2004 | 04:33 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jfoster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So I have a complete LS motor to play with but not alot of $$$ to dump in it. And I know a guy with a GSR crank with Eagle rods and Wiseco Pistons for sale used for very reasonable. And another guy with a B Series STR block guard FS for $50.

1. So if I took the LS block and tapped in the block guard, then had it bored/honed for the pistons ( they're 81.5s ) would that be a cheap and pretty reliable bottom end for a min of 350 and max of 400whp?

2. Does that plan work? GSR crank rods and 81.5mm GSR pistons in an LS block?


FYI: Plan is to be tuned with Hondata

Open to suggestions (other than " just spend a **** ton and sleeve it") and any valid points.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Gsr crank isnt needed when your LS crank will do the job. 350+ is a big number unless u are planning on boosting at least 18psi with a t3/t4e 57 trim. If I were u, I would either get some cams/pnp head bc I have seen some LS making 350hp+ with only 15psi. But, if your short on cash, get some low compression pistons like 8:5:1 and a sc61 and you should be able to meet your goals.
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Old Nov 21, 2004 | 09:46 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

First off, thanks for the input

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaguyef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I woulld stick w/ the LS crank. Spend the money on some forged pistons and some rods ( I see alot of eagles for sale on here cheap). I have basically the same plans for over the winter. In stock sleeves we trust

Phil</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have seen some good deals on here, but I know first hand that his setup only saw about 200 miles or so of use. Plus I can get the rods, pistons, and crank for less than $500 ( Thats pretty good right?)

So if the GSR rotating assembly works fine in an LS block I might as well get it (I am under the impression it will work, but only with the GSR crank. As in the GSR rods/pistons won't work with the LS crank. Is that right?)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.DC2TurBo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Gsr crank isnt needed when your LS crank will do the job. 350+ is a big number unless u are planning on boosting at least 18psi with a t3/t4e 57 trim. If I were u, I would either get some cams/pnp head bc I have seen some LS making 350hp+ with only 15psi. But, if your short on cash, get some low compression pistons like 8:5:1 and a sc61 and you should be able to meet your goals. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Right now I am thinking it will see either an ITR head, or a PnPed LS head. And about 16 psi from an SC34. Truthfully I would be over joyed with 350 WHP....but 390 would be perfection

More thoughts? Plans ? Is the STR block guard a good idea ? Seems like cheap insureance to me, but I have read good and bad things ??????
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Old Nov 21, 2004 | 09:56 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

block guard to me is always a good insurance to have but a lot ppl will disagree and say it is just a waste of money. It's only 100 dollars for aebs so I rather have some peace of mind than have something bad happen.

ITR head or b16 head will get u to 390 without a sweat. I'm in favor of non- vtec. I would love to see if an LS with pnp head/cams/intake manifold is capable of getting 400hp without boosting over 20psi on a t3/t4e 57 trim.
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Old Nov 22, 2004 | 03:20 AM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (Mr.DC2TurBo)

You'll be taking away some stroke w/ the GSR crank. 2.0mm I beleive. You'll lose some low end torque (which is the benefit of the LS to begin with) and drop the compression a little bit. If you're getting it for $500 though I would go ahead and build it. The slight drop in compresion may be a benefit in the future

Phil
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Old Nov 22, 2004 | 10:29 AM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (hondaguyef)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaguyef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You'll be taking away some stroke w/ the GSR crank. 2.0mm I beleive. You'll lose some low end torque (which is the benefit of the LS to begin with) and drop the compression a little bit. If you're getting it for $500 though I would go ahead and build it. The slight drop in compresion may be a benefit in the future

Phil</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, so does anyone know how much using a GSR crank/rods/pistons in an LS block effects compression? I think the pistons are supposed to yeild 9.5:1 comp in a GSR.

So could I just have the block decked a little when I have it bored to make up for the drop? And if I used a DOHC Vtec head, would that gain a little comp back???
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Old Nov 22, 2004 | 12:09 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jfoster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So could I just have the block decked a little when I have it bored to make up for the drop? And if I used a DOHC Vtec head, would that gain a little comp back???</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes and yes. I beleive the compreesion will drop from 9.5 to about 9.2 or 9.3. I am not positive on the exaxt compresion drop but, it isn't to great.

Phil
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Old Nov 22, 2004 | 01:54 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

When i talked to stan at Inlinepro about the setup i'm doing, he told me all i need is Eagle rods and some 9.0:1 pistons. That should be good for the 500-550whp range. Just get it tuned. You can have a stock motor or a built motor, both will fail if not tuned. you makeing power in your goal range now is just a matter of what PSI and tune will get you there and good luck.
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Old Nov 22, 2004 | 05:16 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaguyef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes and yes. I beleive the compreesion will drop from 9.5 to about 9.2 or 9.3. I am not positive on the exaxt compresion drop but, it isn't to great.

Phil</TD></TR></TABLE>

Alright, as long as it in the 9s I think it'll work out fine.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM S1eeper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When i talked to stan at Inlinepro about the setup i'm doing, he told me all i need is Eagle rods and some 9.0:1 pistons. That should be good for the 500-550whp range. Just get it tuned. You can have a stock motor or a built motor, both will fail if not tuned. you makeing power in your goal range now is just a matter of what PSI and tune will get you there and good luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, the tunning will be the key. I just don't want to get all these parts and them not really work together well. Infact the idea of the LS/Vtec worries me, but I'll just have to study up....seems like you guys have ironed out most of its problems...

I'd need the GSR crank pulley to right? For it all to work right?? ?
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Old Nov 22, 2004 | 07:58 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (Mr.DC2TurBo)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.DC2TurBo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">block guard to me is always a good insurance to have but a lot ppl will disagree and say it is just a waste of money. It's only 100 dollars for aebs so I rather have some peace of mind than have something bad happen.

ITR head or b16 head will get u to 390 without a sweat. I'm in favor of non- vtec. I would love to see if an LS with pnp head/cams/intake manifold is capable of getting 400hp without boosting over 20psi on a t3/t4e 57 trim. </TD></TR></TABLE>


i'll be able to get my LS on t3/t4e 57trim to 400whp under 20 psi on pump. i'm already at 350 on pump with 15psi with a bit of misfire. with a bit more tunning i'm sure i can pull 365-380whp @ 15psi on pump. add 3-4psi more and i'm sure i can get 400whp+. but it's all just talk now, we'll have to wait till next spring and see.
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Old Nov 22, 2004 | 08:03 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (shermanyang)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


i'll be able to get my LS on t3/t4e 57trim to 400whp under 20 psi on pump. i'm already at 350 on pump with 15psi with a bit of misfire. with a bit more tunning i'm sure i can pull 365-380whp @ 15psi on pump. add 3-4psi more and i'm sure i can get 400whp+. but it's all just talk now, we'll have to wait till next spring and see.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stock LS head? Good work
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Old Nov 23, 2004 | 07:02 AM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

So what happens if you put GSR rods & pistons on an LS crank, in an LS block? Or can you even do that?
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Old Nov 23, 2004 | 08:11 AM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (Mr.DC2TurBo)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.DC2TurBo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Gsr crank isnt needed when your LS crank will do the job. 350+ is a big number unless u are planning on boosting at least 18psi with a t3/t4e 57 trim. If I were u, I would either get some cams/pnp head bc I have seen some LS making 350hp+ with only 15psi. But, if your short on cash, get some low compression pistons like 8:5:1 and a sc61 and you should be able to meet your goals. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Who cares whether it makes the power at 15 or 18psi? For those power goals, I would go with the 57 trim because it should spool faster than the SC61. Hell, I went with the 50 trim for a goal of 350whp.
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Old Nov 23, 2004 | 06:34 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (RyanCivic2000)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Who cares whether it makes the power at 15 or 18psi? For those power goals, I would go with the 57 trim because it should spool faster than the SC61. Hell, I went with the 50 trim for a goal of 350whp. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I already have an SC34 Just need a motor plan to boost on.
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Old Nov 27, 2004 | 05:29 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

1. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jfoster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So what happens if you put GSR rods & pistons on an LS crank, in an LS block? Or can you even do that? </TD></TR></TABLE>??

2. And I have an Action 2MD clutch I bought for my '01 GSR....will that still work with my GSR trans and an LS block? Or in other words, what determines clutch application? Block or trans? Or both?
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Old Nov 27, 2004 | 05:33 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jfoster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> what determines clutch application? Block or trans? Or both?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Flywheel and Trans.

You would match the PP (which most b esries are the same) w/ the flywheel and you would match the disc w/ the trans. 90-91 teg and most JDM b16 trans have small shafts and 92-93 teg and all hydro b series trannies have large shafts.

Phil
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Old Nov 27, 2004 | 05:53 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (hondaguyef)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaguyef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Flywheel and Trans.

You would match the PP (which most b esries are the same) w/ the flywheel and you would match the disc w/ the trans. 90-91 teg and most JDM b16 trans have small shafts and 92-93 teg and all hydro b series trannies have large shafts.

Phil</TD></TR></TABLE>

So either motor will work with my clutch so long as I use my GSR trans and flywheel.....
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Old Nov 27, 2004 | 05:57 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jfoster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So either motor will work with my clutch so long as I use my GSR trans and flywheel.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sure will

Phil
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Old Nov 27, 2004 | 06:05 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (hondaguyef)

Awesome, and thanks.

So now the question is....to try the whole LS/Vtec plan or just plop the stock LS head back on and boost away.....???....I kinda like the LS head idea as it less work and money....but if it had a GSR head I could just slap my stock GSR IM back on it and just run it off my stock ECU for a NA breakin...

Is it a good idea to break in a motor NA even if its destined for FI ?
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Old Nov 27, 2004 | 06:13 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jfoster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Awesome, and thanks.

Is it a good idea to break in a motor NA even if its destined for FI ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are welcome and yes, break it in N/A. Stick w/ your LS as well. J/K whatever you decide man, just have fun!

Phil
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Old Nov 27, 2004 | 06:20 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (hondaguyef)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaguyef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You'll be taking away some stroke w/ the GSR crank. 2.0mm I beleive. You'll lose some low end torque (which is the benefit of the LS to begin with) and drop the compression a little bit. If you're getting it for $500 though I would go ahead and build it. The slight drop in compresion may be a benefit in the future

Phil</TD></TR></TABLE>

GSR Crank = 35lbs = 87.2mm
LS Crank 34.5lbs = 89mm

You dont swap cranks to change compression. A different stroke crank dictates a different length connecting rod. The rod compensates for this to bring the piston to the correct height at TDC negating the stroke impact on compression.
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Old Nov 27, 2004 | 07:02 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (Muckman)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

GSR Crank = 35lbs = 87.2mm
LS Crank 34.5lbs = 89mm

You dont swap cranks to change compression. A different stroke crank dictates a different length connecting rod. The rod compensates for this to bring the piston to the correct height at TDC negating the stroke impact on compression. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I see now. My mistake . What is the OE length for the GSR rods and the LS rods? The GSR rods are 1.8mm longer than the LS rods?

Phil
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Old Nov 29, 2004 | 12:38 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

I'll probably just get the stock LS crank turned. I was just wondering if GSR rods/pistons are useable with an LS crank because there seems to be more of them for sale in the classifieds and they tend to come with 3/8" bolts as most of the LS rods have the smaller bolts.

Next question. Are the smaller rod bolts just no good? Or is there a HP level at which the larger bolts are required?
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Old Nov 29, 2004 | 02:59 PM
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Default Re: -> Is this a good budget 350-400WHP plan ?? (jfoster)

You can't use the GSR rods on the LS crank. The bearing journal is skinnier (on the gsr rods).

Phil
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