I know there are a couple people here with K20's in either EG's or DC2. How is the ground clearance with the oilpan? I hear it is a concern, and if I decide to go this route with my DC2R, I do not want to risk damaging the oiling system.

Also, how has the K20 held up in terms of on-track reliability? Untouched internals of course. Oil pressure relatively stable around corners? A baffled pan is a no brainer on the list of parts already. Oil pumps sturdy?

This winter is going to be the staging point for a big makover, and with the car seeing 50% of its life on the track, I want to make sure that any decision I make involving the engine is a wise one. This has to be done right, the first time

Thanks in advance,
Marshall

 

hi.

i'm running a k20a2 in my 95 civic dx hatch in the ECHC H1 class.

i've done 10 races with it this year; zero reliability issues. the motor is 100% stock; no cams, etc. makes really good power; i've not had it tuned, but i'd say it is around 200 whp; i am easily able to keep up with the other h1s that are putting out in the neighborhood of 200 whp.

ground clearance is definitely alot less than my B series was. i made a custom 1/8" thick stainless steel skid pan to protect the stock aluminum pan.

i run it about 3/4 quart overfilled; i have had no oil control probs; oil press is very steady on the gauge around corners.

hope that helps!

 

Thats exactly what I wanted to hear. The skidplate is a great idea, I almost used one to protect my header this last season but never got the chance.

Any more feedback would be great!

 

I saw you at SP and I was wondering what you had, Man your car is fast.
Nice setup

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I saw you at SP and I was wondering what you had, Man your car is fast.
Nice setup </TD></TR></TABLE>

thanx.

this winter, when it gets it's "big going-over", i plan on trying to obtain a set of DC5-R (K20A) JDM cams, plus i will have it dyno tuned. i really believe that treatment should unleash at least 25 more hp, as currently, it is "road tuned" only....

the trick, i think, to the longevity factor with the K20 motors, is to shift at or before the stock redline. i am currently shifting around 7800 most times; every now and then i'll go to 8100 if it is an "emergency". no higher than that, though.

problem is, with really aggressive cams, the K will make really huge power in the 8k++ range. people want that, but unfortunately, that seems to bring with it broken bottom ends.

the answer to this problem is to set a rev limiter, as i have, to the stock revlimit or thereabouts. mine is set at 8200 and i have very very rarely hit it. I try to have some restraint!

its really amazing to me that a stock 2 liter motor can make the level of power thta mine is currently making; and start and idle like a stock accord. it also runs very noticeably cooler than my B series did, both water and oil temp. i don't even have the external oil cooler hooked up, and after this summer's racing, don't think i will even bother to engineer it in. the little stock cooler seems to be plenty for this motor.

i'm really happy with my K

todd

PS only downside turns out to be the brake system. even with the Type R front brakes and the best pads, i am having some braking issues by the end of most races. the extra ballast (2350 lbs car/driver) plus the extra straight line speed, is really wearing out the brakes fast; i can no longer make it two weekends on a set of brakes/rotors. with the old B setup, rotors lasted over a year, and pads i only needed to change twice per year.... oh well, i guess this is the price of progress!

 

Here's one swapped in an "EG" hatch....

 

How high is that hatch off the ground though? The clearance issue only gets worse as you lower the car more, something that seems inevitable for track duty.

 

Oh damn, that doesnt look good.

Has anyone heard of, or seen a way to increase ground clearance of the oilpan. Either using a different pan, or somehow messing with the mounts?

That does not look safe in my opinion, and I would actually stray from using that setup if the oilpan hangs that low.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How high is that hatch off the ground though? The clearance issue only gets worse as you lower the car more, something that seems inevitable for track duty.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hardley at all. I mean serious look at the gap of the front lip to the ground. Look how much of the front tire you can see. This isn't the best pic, but you can see the amount of gap between the fenderwell and tire. It's not lowered maybe but an inch.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Hammond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's one swapped in an "EG" hatch....

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That has got to be a kit other than the Hasport kit!?!?!

brian g

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brian g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That has got to be a kit other than the Hasport kit!?!?!

brian g</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its the K20EG kit. DO NOT GO BY THAT PIC. Those mounts put the motor MUCH lower than the Hasport or Hybrid Racing mounts.

 

Its not a Billet Hybrid Racing kit either.


*edit sorry for the double post....

 

K series is kool if you don't have an oil pan and have the oil located in the trunk.

ie DS

 

THanks for jackin my pics guys!
its ok,
They are K20 EG mounts and they are not of greatest fitment!
My oil pan sits VERY VERY low, so i cant really lower my car. As the other guy said, its lowered about 1/1.5 inches, not very much at all. I hate it.

Im also in MD and having some trans probs, ill check it out this week and if i need help, ill def holler at you!
PEace

 

Is the problem with second gear?

 

H DUECE DUECE The K series is a nice motor for sure but it's had a lot of hiccups for tuned versions on track. Mostly those exceeding the stock redline with stock block parts. You can try cryo micro deburing treatments ect but I've heard World Challenge teams were trying this and still seeing engine failures consitently with a peak engine speed of only 9100 RPM

The h22 is a great motor, cheap to replace compared to the K's and has an awesome parts selection in keeping with h1 rules. Unless Honda Cup forces them to go back to the idea of a h0 class I would look more into this.

 

Wow, the oil pan sits real low on the EG..

On my brothers dc2r, the oil pan is not as bad? Seems as of stock height. Not any lower then the lower radiator support.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">H DUECE DUECE The K series is a nice motor for sure but it's had a lot of hiccups for tuned versions on track. Mostly those exceeding the stock redline with stock block parts. You can try cryo micro deburing treatments ect but I've heard World Challenge teams were trying this and still seeing engine failures consitently with a peak engine speed of only 9100 RPM
</TD></TR></TABLE>

answer
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the trick, i think, to the longevity factor with the K20 motors, is to shift at or before the stock redline. i am currently shifting around 7800 most times; every now and then i'll go to 8100 if it is an "emergency". no higher than that, though.

problem is, with really aggressive cams, the K will make really huge power in the 8k++ range. people want that, but unfortunately, that seems to bring with it broken bottom ends.

the answer to this problem is to set a rev limiter, as i have, to the stock revlimit or thereabouts. mine is set at 8200 and i have very very rarely hit it. I try to have some restraint!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

I dunno I revved my stock K20 to 8700 daily for oh I dunno 3.5 months with 0 problems...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoesTypeS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dunno I revved my stock K20 to 8700 daily for oh I dunno 3.5 months with 0 problems...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe your car saw any track time during those 3.5 months.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">H DUECE DUECEI've heard World Challenge teams were trying this and still seeing engine failures consitently with a peak engine speed of only 9100 RPM
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what is the redline for the DC5-R (K20A)? If it has more agressive cams, I'm assuming that it'd have a beefier bottom end?

And does anyone know the ground clearance for the Hasport kit?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EX_AutoXer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So what is the redline for the DC5-R (K20A)? If it has more agressive cams, I'm assuming that it'd have a beefier bottom end?

And does anyone know the ground clearance for the Hasport kit?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

bottom end is the same between K20A and K20A2, with the exception that the K20A has slightly higher comp pistons; otherwise, rods, crank, bearings, etc are the same in the bottom end.

other differences between the K20A and the K20A2 are that the K20A cams are more aggressive; i think the valve springs are better suited to higher rpms; the intake manifold is better flowing at the extreme high end, and a different programmed ecu. tranny has a higher numerical FD, with LSD.

stock redline i believe is 8100 rpm for the K20A2; 8600 rpm for the K20A.

even with the JDM K20A, i do not think that it is safe to make repeated shifts on the roadrace track at 8600 rpm. something is likely to break in the bottom end, sooner or later.

there is a HUGE differentce between daily driving and shifting at 8700 sometimes and roadracing at a track and shifting at 8600 rpm every shift. the daily driver might last for years doing this, but the stress of running down the straightaway in 4th or 5th as you approach 8600 rpm is very very much different than touching 8700 for an instant in between 2nd and 3rd occasionally on the street....

mine is a stock K20A2 from a wrecked rsx-s, btw.

 

I rev my Stock Internalled JDM K20A in my EG to 8800, but I am only Drag Racing, But I do flat shift so it might see 9100 tops... but when your talking sub 12's a run there might only be 2sec's of revving over the stock 8600 redline..
I beleive that in circuit use holding the K20A above 8500-8600 for a long time causes them to drop the bottom end..
On another note on the Dyno the start to fall over past 8600rpm a little bit, not much but a little...But in saying that, mine varies within 5whp for the last 2000rpm..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondog &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I beleive that in circuit use holding the K20A above 8500-8600 for a long time causes them to drop the bottom end..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

why you said so? Do you have concrete evidence? I've been bouncing off the rev limiter quite a few times. Which is set at 8700rpm.

I believe people in Japan who raced their cars in one make series didn't have the problem you described as well.

 

I know of a couple of JDM DC5R's that have been raced here and in a couple of big endurance races one dropped a conrod and his new motor has dropped a big end... Maybe its bad luck, maybe its the driver... maybe its the Rev's... Maybe its the oil.. who knows... His rev limit might have been raised with his K-Pro tune..
I just know that he isnt the only one over here to have the same problem..
But in saying that you would expect a company like Honda to build a motor that can live at its redline all day like the d and b series can..