So here is the story. I am going to build a motor this winter for next race season. The platform will be my '97 ITR. I have two ITR motors, both need rebuilds, one still runs well. I have two ITR trannies, one with ATS final drive. A bunch of other B-series crap from the last 4 years of modding. I can rebuild both ITR longblocks, sell them, sell both ITR trannies, and have enough dough to perform a decent K20 swap...but with only enough money for intake/header/K-Pro tune. Would probably yield close to 220whp...this without cracking the motor open.

Or, I can sell one of my ITR longblocks, one of my ITR trannies, and have enough money to build a wicked 2.0L using a GSR shortblock (would have to purchase), and my other ITR head. I have ITB's, I have a Comptech Race header, so all I would need is internals. Sleeve, 85mm, target 12:1 compression for pump gas, Toda C's most likely with matching valvetrain. I would guess with a good tune (uber) close to 230whp is very realistic.

I want some opinions from those who have similar 85mm B-series setups, and those with mild K20 setups. The potential of the K-series is very very tempting, and with more and more parts making more power, its almost too tempting.

I do not drag race, I have purpose built the car so far for road course action. Response and reliability are my two main concerns with the motor. So with all this in mind, how do both options compare to one another? Both options have relatively the same power output, one option though is half the cost.

Thanks in advance,
Marshall

 

Neither I own a K20A swapped vehicle or a built Bseries monster.

But that seems like an easy question to me.
You can have a stock engine that cranks 220 WHP at the wheels with your options open for the future or a built *** Bseries which will probably have slightly more HP but will be tuned to its maximal potential and require higher maintenance.

K-series all the way.

 

k-series, you seem like the kinda person that will keep on building your car. the b-series platform for you is probably played out. i think the extra potential that the k-series will have along with honda reliability to begin with is a good choice.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PowerHouse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">k-series, you seem like the kinda person that will keep on building your car. the b-series platform for you is probably played out. i think the extra potential that the k-series will have along with honda reliability to begin with is a good choice.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand exactly what you said.

For me, I've seen the rise and fall of so many fads and trends that have arrised on the B-series over the last 4-5 years...so it is exciting to see the potential the K-series offers because it brings me back to the late 90's when the explosion of B-parts started. I am a firm believer that the K-series is the engine for this decade. The possibility of having 230+ whp N/A without touching internals is unheard of.

The only regret I currently have about pursuing the K20 swap, is that the price of the custom parts like the mounts/wiring and also the overall price of the engine, will drastically be reduced in the coming year.

That is unless I get a sponsorship by HybridRacing or Hasport

 

The only thing that will suck about using such a stock K20 is that the rods are not as strong as we are used to with the B series. In order to be safe, most people I have talked to recomend that you stay within the stock rev limit until you can upgrade the rods.

 

i also do not own a b series monster nor k20. to get a k20r alone seems to be quite a pretty penny? what is it going for these days 6grand? it takes roughly another 2 grand to just get the engine in neatly and running.

the kpro, header, intake and exhaust will definately add up.

i swear i drool thinking about the k20 in my civic, but i think i will sell by b18c5 and do a b20 before a k20. the k20 is too expensive for a daily driver IMO.

but on your hand this is your race car. **** race cars are ment to be built and rebuilt....id build a b series beast and maybe maintain it once a season.....not too hard right?

just a thought. if i had a lot of extra cash i would do the k20. 6spd yeaaayuhhh!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yaya &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i swear i drool thinking about the k20 in my civic, but i think i will sell by b18c5 and do a b20 before a k20. the k20 is too expensive for a daily driver IMO.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

you would want a k20a for a daily driver because of the relabilty factor. unless youre talking about a straight b20 and not b20/vtec. Because i dont believe the b20 option was even thrown in this discussion to begin with.

 

I have driven a 230whp/150tq B20VTEC and I can tell you, it is nice. Personally, I am over fads and it seems like K series has potential, but is still in development. B series is still to the point where people can improve things and arrive at more of a baseline improvement. There are plenty of folks interested in taking the B platform further. Parts are more readily available and its tried and true, reliable as well. I vote for the 84mm GSR on ITBs and mild compression, freed up to make reliable and dependable power Since its already been done, I say draw from that strength and have something that works well IMHO.

 

K-series is the way to go...

 

build up the b-series and play with it for a year or two, then sell it and go k-series. Give it a little while for more research and development and parts will also get cheaper. It looks like you spent a decent amount of change on your b-series parts, why not use it a little more? Unless you want to be one of the people to help with advancement in knowledge of the k motor swaps.

 

I think one of the primary concerns, at least for myself, that is preventing me from undertaking this project is the low hanging oil pan.

I believe Z10 is working on something to address this, but again as some have already mentioned in this thread.

Wait for the Kswap to mature a bit more.....only better things can come from waiting.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by specie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">build up the b-series and play with it for a year or two, then sell it and go k-series. Give it a little while for more research and development and parts will also get cheaper. It looks like you spent a decent amount of change on your b-series parts, why not use it a little more? Unless you want to be one of the people to help with advancement in knowledge of the k motor swaps. </TD></TR></TABLE>

smartest thing any has said to his Original Post.

 

k

 

B-series motor, 84mm GSR with ITB's!!

Why??
Because those are your roots.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ceLtic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">smartest thing any has said to his Original Post. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The problem with that idea is that you are going to lose an ASSLOAD of money on a fully built B series. I've seen it a hundered times. If you don't plan on keeping it for a while, I wouldn't bother.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The problem with that idea is that you are going to lose an ASSLOAD of money on a fully built B series. I've seen it a hundered times. If you don't plan on keeping it for a while, I wouldn't bother.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Using investment as a deciding factor for anything to do with modifying a car is a bad idea. Even a built K-series will deteriorate in value over the next few years, as parts, services, and knowledge becomes more readily available.

There are growing concerns involving how low the oilpan hangs, and it is slightly discouraging because the oilpan is a very critical, and expensive piece to replace if something were to happen. Simply having some scrap metal and a TIG welder is all you need to repair a torn/crushed header, which would be the extent of repairs needed on a B-series if I were to make an off-course excursion

I really enjoy thinking about the possibilities the K-series has to offer, but I need to be convinced more before I make the investment from switching to B-series, which I'm all too familiar with, to the new and "unproven" K-series.

The more feedback the better, thanks to all who have replied so far.

 

I think that with the parts you have at your disposal already you would be crazy to switch to K motors. I think they are great and all but the price is way up their and there is no comparison to B series with parts availabiltiy. Every year that goes by more and more K series are made and more end up in the yards. I'm sticking it out for a few more years till I can buy a 02 Si for cheap, and drop in a K24. Just not yet man.

 

have to agree with keeping the b for a while man. good power and reliable. the k series is the future,but with all the stuff you have there it's better to stick with the b

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ce &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have to agree with keeping the b for a while man. good power and reliable. the k series is the future,but with all the stuff you have there it's better to stick with the b</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the comments guys.

I agree with the theories behind sticking with the B-series for now. I have a whole bunch of parts I can use to develope a great motor, I should use them first.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92TypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the comments guys.

I agree with the theories behind sticking with the B-series for now. I have a whole bunch of parts I can use to develope a great motor, I should use them first.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not a bad idea. By the time you decide to get rid of the B, there should be an assload of parts for the K and head porters should have unlocked the secrets of the K series head. Not only that, but K24 short blocks should be ridiculously plentiful and cheap.

 

I think for all those who are considering RR the K20...this is a pretty decent article to check out.

http://asia.vtec.net/article/MME2004ET1/index.html

Of particular interest, especially to myself, FWIW, is the addtion of a transmission cooler.... something Mugen felt was necessary not only in enduro racing but also sprints.....