I installed SMC steel brake lines, Russell speed bleeders and ATE super blue brake fluid in my 2001 ITR recently but can`t seem to get all the air out of the system even after running 2 quarts of brake fluid through the system and following brake bleeding proceedure on page 19-7 of shop manual to letter. The pedal is somewhat spongy but never gets really hard. Brake grab very well but I don`t like the feel. Dealer no help.

 

Hey, another fellow michigander. Welcome to the honda-tech. I'm just getting ready to do this install, but I've heard that it just takes some miles to firm up. drive 4-500 miles around town with this setup and then go and rebleed, see how that works.

 

For some reason this seems to be true of any stock -> stainless/teflon brake line change on Type R's. Mine went soft too. There's no air in there, but it's softer than stock.

Dunno, I'm not gonna take a SWAG at why it works that way. It just does.

Warren

 

That's not good. I was going to "upgrade" to SS lines at some point, but not if the pedal gets softer. Let us know if the pedal improves.

How are the Russell bleeders?

-Floyd

 

after I installed my StopTech ss lines, my pedal got soft also. After wasting 4 bottles of Motul600, I switched to Valvoline synthetic. Pedal was back to stock firmness (if not stiffer) after I got rid of the darned Motul.

yoshi - who won't use Motul600 again

 

Is everybody experiencing a mushy brake pedal with the Motul600?

 

Hey Yoshi,
Mike from IPS Racing is using Motul 600 and he said that his brake pedal is stiffer than normal. I ordered some of the same type for my car too, but I'm thinking twice now about that product. Since, you experienced a negative effect from this brake fluid.

 

A liquid is a liquid and is nearly incompressible (under normal conditions and assuming no cavitation).

Regardless of brand if bled properly the pedal will feel the same (all things being equal).

Try gravity bleeding each corner. That worked for me when I installed my Mugen SS lines.

Also, try hitting the calipers and brake lines with a hammer to dislodge stubborn bubbles.

Good luck.

-kenji

 

I had a similar "problem" after I installed my Goodridge lines on my car and another Type-R.

We bled through almost 2 cans worth of Ford DOT3HD, costs significantly less than all the other "exotic" fluids out there.....and the pedal still felt like mush.....well felt like a stock SiR/Si brake pedal.....

Gave up....got pissed off and juss drove it.... a couple of days later the pedal felt better.....this has happened a few times now....

I'm very wary of bleeding at the track...but will now pack a hammer and try what Kenji has recommended.....

 

Russell bleeders are best thing since sliced bread - stops that annoying whine of wife/girl friend pumping brake pedal while helping you bleed brakes. Seriously, now I can bleed my brakes any time I need to since no helper required.

 

My friend and I had horrible experience with those Russell bleeders. We installed 4 of those on my car and 4 on his BB6, which use the same bleeders size as mine. 1 of his leaked and 2 of mine leaked. It's not serious, but it's good enough to trap air inside. We ended up have to use some tafflen tapes to seal the leaks and change the tape whenever we bleed the lines. It's a pain in the ***. I am now using bleeding pump... I know some people will disagree with and and had no problems with them, may be I am just an unlucky one.

 

Goodridge SS lines and Motul 600, Never had a Soft pedal feel, and after a 2 day track event, Pedal was still firm, Where as a few guys who were running the Super Blue had to bleed their brakes. I know plenty of people running Motul with no problem at all. Only other fluid I would reccomend would be Endless race or Street.

 

How much brake fluid is needed to bleed the whole system?

 

1liter should do it.

 

But with Motul 600, don't you have to bleed more often simply because it absorbs moisture much easier? That was what I was told by many people.

 

If any of you guys with mushy pedals have ABS..thats your answer.

Replace your lines, bleed the system, run the car in excess of 35mph (on stands is ok) and then re-bleed.

Your ABS pumps dont reset and cycle until youhit 35mph in most systems regardless of the car. Thats the secret.

 

Over in this thread: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=105492 jeff652 was talking about a Cusco master cylindar brace. Has anyone else tried this thing?

-Floyd

 

Something I haven't seen posted is what brake pads were being used when the lines were switched. If you are still using stock, now there is more pressure on the pad then there was....that may cause you to feel more of the mush of the stock pad. Just a thought

I have been extrememly pleased with the Techna-fit SS {heat wrapped ss lines}. They went on perfectly and Firmed up just like the last car I did this too.

After the first few stops, all of lines do need to be checked again to make sure you have NO leaks...even a tiny leak will cause mushiness. (Trick - make sure the inner lining of the rubber cap & bleeder valve have NO fluid on them. Put the cap on & drive & brake hard for a couple days. Recheck your caps & if there is any fluid - you have a leak.....this is how I found one valve not quite tight = 1 week driving = ~2 drops in the cap} You can also mark your bleeder valve-to-caliper so you know where "closed" is for reference each time you bleed.

Hope this helps.