Yep thats right, my $250 is staying right in my pocket. Heres a little summary.

11 PM at night, going around a turn on a country road (55mph) at 70-80mph and there is a cop on the side of the road around the turn. Cop accuses me of intoxication and doesn't believe me when I deny it. I tell him I will take a breathalizer if he wants, he does. .000 BAC. So he gives me a ticket for 74 in a 55.

I send in a trial of written declaration and the judge finds me guilty. I request a court trial and file a request for public records and ask for about 10 different documents relating to the radar device, the officer's qualifications, and the facts of the incident. I receive the info, and use it plus some online resources to write a 15 page strategy including 9 pages of cross examination questions. I also had 3-5 pictures of the scene to prove different parts of my argument.

I walk into court today which by now is almost 7 months from the date of the incident. I see a a few cops sitting in the audience, 2 of whom look like they could be one of the officers from the scene. One of the those is with a partner who looks similar to the partner the day of the incident. So i figure well no luck there, time for the fun part.

My name is called, I raise my hand, no one else does. The judge looks through her info and asks if the two officers are here. No response. By this time I have gone up to stand in front of the judge and she tells me that my case is dismissed due to lack of prosecution. Awesome.

I tell the judge I have a question and tell her that one of my defenses was to invoke my right to a speedy trial and get it dismissed because the trial date was more than 45 days from the date I requested a new one. She tells me that as long as I never waived that right at some point, I would have won on that argument. Awesome again.

On the 9th I have to go defend myself again for a red light violation that I was just going to plead for traffic school for because right now the fine on it is so big I am not eligible to go to traffic school. But guess what, that court date was also sceduled more than 45 days after I requested a trial. The officer then changed that date to a later one (it was originally supposed to be today too) but I don't think that changes it because I never waived my right. FYI, if the officer requests a change and moves the date outside of the 45 day period you can't use this defense because the court will waive your right for you, but since the original day was still more than 45 days I'm optimistic it will work. And there is always the chance this cop won't show up either.

Fight your tickets!

And yes i've learned my lesson, no more fast driving on the street for me.


Modified by PredatorGSR at 11:05 PM 11/3/2004

 

glad that worked out for you. Cops can be stupid sometimes. The redlight thing still is gonna be a hard time though.

 

Yup - always fight a ticket. I won last year when the cop did not turn up (very common) and a friend of mine just got out of a speeding ticket because the speed survey for the road on which she was ticketed was faulty in some way.

 

always fight the ticket or get a lawyer.

 

Good job, but you got lucky.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nightrider &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">always fight the ticket or get a lawyer. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So you can pay a lawyer $300 to get you off a $150 ticket?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpiceyRice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So you can pay a lawyer $300 to get you off a $150 ticket? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Makes sense, if that $150 ticket carries two insurance points with it. Two points that will raise your premiums dramatically for the next three years.

&lt;-- Used lawyer (2x), learned lesson, tries not to act the fool anymore.

 

Good going, I will be in court soon for speeding.

Can you elaborate on the speedy trial thing? What exactly is my argument when Im front of the judge?

 

So you were in fact guilty, but didn't want to face the consequences of your actions so you spent who knows how much of your time writing a 15 page defense for a $250 ticket plus the time and money wasted in an already burdened judicial system.

Way to go...

 

I fought my speeding ticket and lost.

When doing a trial by declaration you waive your right to traffic school if you are eligible.

BTW, the same judge that read my trial by declaration (declared guilty) was the same judge at the new trial (court trial) -&gt;And of course guilty again.

I requested the public records and had pages of strategies and cross examine questions. And the Pig shows.


Apparantly, (By the looks of boredom on the judge face) Many people do this all the time.
Even though I am eligible for traffic school,(because this is the new trial) Judge tells me he wont give me traffic school because he does not believe I will learn anything, AND gives me the full fine.

This was for 94 in 70 zone. Highway 5 South going to buttonwillow. Got stopped in Kern County.

If I get another ticket, I would just do the traffic school. The time spent requesting the public records, Organizing your strategies and Cross exam questions, and taking time off work to go to court (For me it was 4 hours one way) is not worth it to me. (Especially if the judge still finds you guilty and wont give you traffic school, even though you are eligible)

EDIT: CA Highway Patrol Pigs do show up to Court, they get paid to show up.


Modified by ITR#132 at 7:02 PM 11/3/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PredatorGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I request a court trial and file a request for public records and ask for about 10 different documents relating to the radar device, the officer's qualifications, and the facts of the incident. </TD></TR></TABLE>

How do you request that info? Who would you have to go through???

 

All you have to do is going to the CHP office and give them a peice of paper with the information you want. The information that turned out to be most valuable was the back of the officers copy of the ticket (they write notes on there), the operators manual for the radar (explains the ways radar can be off and its limitations), and the radar calibration log (case laws has established the radar should be calibrated before and after the ticket, and the log showed it had been calibrated a day before and 2 days after).

At least in california the court has to scedule your court trial within 45 days of requesting one (your arrainment). If they scedule it outside of that time, you can file a motion to dismiss due to the fact that your right to a speedy trial was denied.

Edit: Btw, if the chp refuses to give you the information you can file a right to discovery motion and the judge will force the chp to give you the info if there isn't a good reason you shouldn't have it. But at least in my case, the chp gave me the info without any trouble.


Modified by PredatorGSR at 9:46 PM 11/3/2004

 

Same things happened to me for a red light violation. He wrote me a ticket saying I jumped the gun from the red to the green. I knew I didn't and took it to court.

The cop didn't end up showing up, my name was called, I walked up and the Judge said "Your case is dismissed." That simple.

Its kinda funny going to court and listening to everyones stories and traffic violations.

 

dang dude .

i went to court and they cut my ticket in half (i did a California roll at a stop, i was dumb).

 

If you contest a ticket, you don't become ineligible for traffic school, but it becomes up to the judge whether you should go or not. If it also comes up during the trial that you were actually going a lot faster than the cop cited you for and stuff like that, the judge can actually raise your fine if you are being a jackass.

I've watched maybe 10 people go to court with the defense, "yes i am guilty, but heres my excuse" and 2 different judges reduced most of those fines because of the circumstances. You won't get off, because you are admitting guilt, but the fine might be cut in half.

I also watched a kid who was ticketed for going 100+ on the highway stand in front of the judge and say "I don't want to pay the full fine, is there any way you can reduce it or let me go to traffic school?" And the judge asks "why should i?". The kid says "well i don't really think i was going over 100mph, I'm usually pretty careful not to go over 100 mph because I know the fines are a lot bigger". The judge said he was obviously irresponsible and while not going over 100mph was a good goal (with sarcasm), he was going to give the guy the full set of fines (1000+).

 

Red light tickets are very hard to fight because it pretty much comes down to the officer's word against yours. That is why I am just trying to get it dismissed due to a bureaucratic error and if that fails just asking for traffic school.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PredatorGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All you have to do is going to the CHP office and give them a peice of paper with the information you want. The information that turned out to be most valuable was the back of the officers copy of the ticket (they write notes on there), the operators manual for the radar (explains the ways radar can be off and its limitations), and the radar calibration log (case laws has established the radar should be calibrated before and after the ticket, and the log showed it had been calibrated a day before and 2 days after).

At least in california the court has to scedule your court trial within 45 days of requesting one (your arrainment). If they scedule it outside of that time, you can file a motion to dismiss due to the fact that your right to a speedy trial was denied.

Edit: Btw, if the chp refuses to give you the information you can file a right to discovery motion and the judge will force the chp to give you the info if there isn't a good reason you shouldn't have it. But at least in my case, the chp gave me the info without any trouble.


Modified by PredatorGSR at 9:46 PM 11/3/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>


So you're saying that all I need to do is to go to the station and ask for the fact of the incident that the officer wrote down for notes? And they'll give that to me that simply???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So you were in fact guilty, but didn't want to face the consequences of your actions so you spent who knows how much of your time writing a 15 page defense for a $250 ticket plus the time and money wasted in an already burdened judicial system.

Way to go...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats right. If I can go to court and prove that the officer didn't use the radar correctly and that it wasn't calibrated, plus I get it dismissed due to procedural errors, why shouldn't I?

95% of people don't contest tickets, and cops know this so they get sloppy in following the right procedures to ticket you correctly. I know my rights and I'm not going to give up my money without a fight. Sure I was speeding, but I don't believe I was doing so in an unsafe manner so I feel no moral obligation to accept a $250 fine and a point on my driving record if I can fight it.

 

here is the form I used. http://www.norman-law.com/page28.html It isn't an offical form or anything, but you don't need one. You just have to submit a request for the information. The chp looked at it kinda funny cause they hadn't seen it before, but they accepted it and mailed me the info at no charge.

Btw, this is where I learned most of my information on how to fight a ticket, great site. http://www.norman-law.com/page6.html

 

Good man you have been reading up on your traffic laws/

 

I wish there was a way to get out of my exhaust ticket!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wish there was a way to get out of my exhaust ticket!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Find the DMV website for your state. Read the vehicle code. If there is a way your exhaust is legal, you will find it in there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wish there was a way to get out of my exhaust ticket!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Find the DMV website in your state. Read the vehicle code. If there is a way your exhaust is legal, you will find it in there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PredatorGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">here is the form I used. http://www.norman-law.com/page28.html It isn't an offical form or anything, but you don't need one. You just have to submit a request for the information. The chp looked at it kinda funny cause they hadn't seen it before, but they accepted it and mailed me the info at no charge.

Btw, this is where I learned most of my information on how to fight a ticket, great site. http://www.norman-law.com/page6.html</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank you for the useful links

 

I was contacted about providing more info so I thought I would post it in this thread too.

First of all, check out this site, awesome info.
http://www.norman-law.com/page6.html.

I also checked out the wording of the infraction I was cited for in
the vehicle code on the DMV website.

I submitted a request for records at the chp office in the county
where I received the ticket. This is what I asked for.
http://www.norman-law.com/page28.html. I filled out all that info, and
also asked for the manufacturer's training manaul for the radar
device, and the maintenance records and origin of the tuning forks.

Then sent me a packet with all the info I asked. It turned out that
the officer who cited me was not certified to operate radar, and the
photocopy of the back of his copy of the citation showed that his
partner was the one who operated the radar. In the packet was a
letter for the CHP captain which stated the fact that the officer was
not certified, and so he was sending me the records of the partner, as
well as adding a note that the partner would be sent to court as well.

My strategy was as follows:
Bureaucatic:
1. Dismissal due to failure of officer to appear.
2. Dismissal due to right to speedy trial being infringed.
3. Dismissial due to incompetent witness (if the officer couldn't
remember anything about the case, it was 7 months later)

Radar:
1. not calibrated before and after citation (case precedent:
http://www.norman-law.com/page29.html)
2. proximity of power lines (directly above and also in front of
squad car(pictures)
3. reflective speed sign in front of squad car (could reflect beam
and pick up speeds of vehicles behind and to the side of the squad
car.
4. officer not experienced in use of specific radar (have to cx to
find that out)
5. If the police radio was on at the time (cx)

Visual Estimation (discredit the officer's visual backup).
1. I measured and the distance from when you could see my car and the
time the officers lights went off was 300 ft. At 74 mph he had 2.8
seconds. At 55 mph he had 3.7 seconds. I doubt he could have made an
accurate visual estimate in that time.
2. Darkness, a car traveling in a curve, my high beams pointed at his
car, and the fact that I was braking all would result in him taking a
lot longer to make a visual estimation, if he could even make it at
all, and there wasn't enough time for him to do that.
3. Attack the officers experience (cx)
4. Ask him what the distance was and the time it would take for my
car to travel that distance, if he was off, use the
speed=distance/time formula to show that it would result it a very
different speed than the one i was traveling and further discredit
him.

I have no guarantee that this would have worked since I never actually
was able to use it.

Here is a link to the 15 page strategy I wrote.
http://pgsr.com/cx2.html

Formatting is kinda screwed up but oh well.

Lemme know if you have any questions.