I got tired of hearing people saying how SSAC/Stone Mountain purchased the blue prints for Tial's wastegates. So I emailed Tial, here it is....

__________________________________________________ _____
From : tech <tech@tialsport.com>
Sent : Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:10 PM
To : "Garrett Moore" <tegunderpressure@hotmail.com>
Subject : Re: Quick Question

| | | Inbox


They are selling china made knockoff of our product.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Garrett Moore" <tegunderpressure@hotmail.com>
To: <tech@tialsport.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Quick Question


Hey, I just need you to confirm that SSAutoChrome did not purchase your wastegate patents/plans/diagrams etc. and that their wastegates are not carbon copies of yours. Thank you.
Garrett Moore
__________________________________________________ _________

 

 

That's what i'd write if I worked for Tial too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's what i'd write if I worked for Tial too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hahahahha good one

 

I happen to have access to a genuine Tial 35mm and a SSAC 35mm right now. I'll try to take pictures, weigh them, measure everything I can sometime in the next week or two + post pictures.

 

thats interesting

 

i purchased both....inside and out they look identical, except for the tail name on it.

 

Custom, can you take pics of both to show us likes pics of the internals will be great?

 

You'll probably find they're identical. People say they are crap without actually testing them. I have one on my car, runs great, holds boost no prob.....Its a little loud when it actuates (I'm running an open dumptube) - but other than that I have had no problems with it.

Its funny how people get so worked up over no-name parts (OBX LSD??)......

 

I had one the shitbox knockoffs and it cost me a motor when the diaphram blew and my boosted over 30psi on a stock B16 . The WG was set at 14psi and it ran great there but then the hat came loose and twisted and boom . Now I have a Tial and there is a big difference in machining and casting . Dont chance running the crapshit WG , some may work while other may do what happened to me .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I happen to have access to a genuine Tial 35mm and a SSAC 35mm right now. I'll try to take pictures, weigh them, measure everything I can sometime in the next week or two + post pictures.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cool, I look foward to seeing your write up. If you could pay special attention to the diaphram, spring and valve that would be nice.

 

I will take pic of the mine blown apart .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Highrevs99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had one the shitbox knockoffs and it cost me a motor when the diaphram blew and my boosted over 30psi on a stock B16</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly why I would never run one.

 

i had one fail too...and read of many other instances of it failing....

 

sometimes people are too smart for their own good.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rain_man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Cool, I look foward to seeing your write up. If you could pay special attention to the diaphram, spring and valve that would be nice. </TD></TR></TABLE>

id like to see this write up too. b/c i have a ssac sitting in front of me but its not on yet.

 

maybe the ones that failed are older ones and aren't the newest ones that seem to be exact copies of the tials.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe the ones that failed are older ones and aren't the newest ones that seem to be exact copies of the tials.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea i know. me and my friend inspected the 2 to see what the differnce was... One has the name brand logo on the polished portion and on the casting also has the name of tial. only differnce inside and out.

About the diafram. Dont post stuff like that... (it was SSauto's POS taht did it) that could very well easily happen to teh tial also. Or maybe user error. The units are the same and im sure tial doesnt have some secret patent to the materials the diafram was made with. I'm sure the matierals are pretty much the same and have little to do with them failing. If the unit is installed correctly it shouldnt mess up. but then again like i said. it coudl happen to either of teh 2.

Sorry about yoru engine blowing tho.

Tail
SSAC + (extra $$ you save)

EDIT:

I have a question? Do you all shop for clothes the same way you do auto parts? I'll be the first to admit... **** it, I SHOP AT WAL-MART!!!

 

nice post brad, either of the 2 can blow a diaphram so dont just say it like its cuz it was cheaop just like he said, but there are a few minor, slight differences between the two on the outside, ill try to get pix 2morrow

 

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe the ones that failed are older ones and aren't the newest ones that seem to be exact copies of the tials.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No offense, but I think its this kind of attitude that gets people in trouble. People WANT to think these are the carbon copies, and will work fine, just because they are cheap. Old SSAC mani's cracked, then they came out with the new "super braced" ones that are just as bad, the turbo's they are currently selling blow the seals just as fast as the old ones, so what makes you think they would put any more effort into their wastegates?

But in either case, Tial said they were not the same. So you won't listen to Tial, but you will listen to some kid who says they look the exact same?

Once again, no offense here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegunderpressure &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Once again, no offense here. </TD></TR></TABLE>
cool cool, heres what i know but dont take it to heart. Its only what i know and you all can think what you all think too. (did that come out right?) haha


I understand what you mean but look at it this way. The new manifolds come with a warrenty for cracking. if they do? oh well they will ship you another one and be there in 2-3 days. but thats besides the point, ANY manifold will crack when looking at it in these conditions. You have to brace the turbo to help support it all better or i dont care what manifold you have, it'll prolly one day crack.

turbos? I dunno about all their turbos but i do know several of the ones they do sell are XS turbos. and last i check XS gets garrett to make them for them i believe. I know some arnt that great but some of the turbos they sell are good quality. How long do you plan on your turbo lasting? 100,000 miles? well i could see a nice name brand one lasting maybe 30-60k miles. I dont see why if these turbos are taken care of (dependin on witch ones) should last last long as other band turbos.


The wastegates? Well the tail and ssato WG's are very simply items. I really thing even Fisher-Price or any other toy company could make them. It doesnt take a rocket scientest to figure out how to replicate a tial wastegate.


But yeah, everyone here on H-T has the exact same bum hole or atleast tires to. You all trie to have the same opinion of the croud instead of trying it out and baseing it on your own. But its all good. These are also just what i think, you all dont have to care, i could care less Just be more open minded

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opto_isolator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You'll probably find they're identical. People say they are crap without actually testing them. I have one on my car, runs great, holds boost no prob.....Its a little loud when it actuates (I'm running an open dumptube) - but other than that I have had no problems with it.

Its funny how people get so worked up over no-name parts (OBX LSD??)......</TD></TR></TABLE>

man, truer words were never spoken.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegunderpressure &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No offense, but I think its this kind of attitude that gets people in trouble. People WANT to think these are the carbon copies, and will work fine, just because they are cheap. Old SSAC mani's cracked, then they came out with the new "super braced" ones that are just as bad, the turbo's they are currently selling blow the seals just as fast as the old ones, so what makes you think they would put any more effort into their wastegates?

But in either case, Tial said they were not the same. So you won't listen to Tial, but you will listen to some kid who says they look the exact same?

Once again, no offense here. </TD></TR></TABLE>

ummm..say what?? No. show me a member of this board that actually OWNS one of their newer manifolds that have cracked or a turbo who's seal was blown - then ask em for pics. All such accounts are "um...I heard (aka I speculate) that the seals will blow".

What a ton of you here don't understand is the following..A retailor like SSAC won't spend the tens of thousands to go cast compressor housings, compressors, impellers, ballance the assembly, get some un-even ball bearings, and put **** seals in. Instead they'll say "Hey turborama - we wanna buy your design on this turbo (a process called 'branding' - among other well-guised names for it). Turborama sells em the design with the casting spot for their original name filled in. Turborama pockets a few thousand bucks for a design that they've surpassed, and SSAC puts out a product that the H-T bandwagon bashes. Same thing happens with OBX, same thing's gonna happen with joe schmoe's race-a-torium.

This is coming from me who's run a 109.72mph with a 2.44 60' with one of their turbos on an LS powered cx with stock internals and 8psi

Oh BTW - ask Tial what's different from one to the other. $5 says "Well look....there's dosen't say Tial on it!!"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM S1eeper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

About the diafram. Dont post stuff like that... (it was SSauto's POS taht did it) that could very well easily happen to teh tial also. Or maybe user error. The units are the same and im sure tial doesnt have some secret patent to the materials the diafram was made with. I'm sure the matierals are pretty much the same and have little to do with them failing. If the unit is installed correctly it shouldnt mess up. but then again like i said. it coudl happen to either of teh 2. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You're telling somebody to not post their negative experience with a product but at the same time you are posting your completely unsubstantiated opinions? How are you so "sure" the materials are pretty much the same?

You chalk the SSAC failures to user error or that it could just as easily happen to Tial, but have you noticed that there are many posts about SSAC/Deltagate's failing and few if any HKS/Tial WG's malfunctioning? Considering how HT has bandwagoned onto Tial WG's, if the Tial's were giving people problems we'd hear about it.

You're right, Tial doesn't have a secret patent to what the diaphragm materials are made of. In fact they clearly list it on their site, so it no secret.

If a significant number of people truly are having problems w/ SSAC diaphragms failing, it is either because SSAC cheaped out on the material and used something not as heat resistant as Tial or whatever materials SSAC used for the WG head and body are not doing as good of a job disappating the heat from the diaphragm.

Again, I look forward to Blundar's writeup, and I'm all for them being the same. Nothing wrong with something doing the job for half the price.

 

Just saying if you look at both. Take them apart you will understand. Usererror could happen easily as far as the diafram. Taking them apart, tampering, not checking over it to make sure it was closed back up correctly. dunno. Its hard to say. Just saying you cant point the finger at the name of teh product because of something going wrong.