I've decided that I'll most likely sell my Lowdowns. Less than 2K miles, and in perfect condition. Just got them 5 months ago.

Although the improvement over stock is noticable, after a few track days, I feel like I need something more hardcore, a true coilover system.

So, before I post a sale in classifieds, I need to decide on what to replace them with.

I can spend up to $2500, and I've already researched many of the available systems, but what I'm looking for is first-hand knowledge and experience from those who have these systems.

As far as purpose, the car is to be used exclusively on the track, but driven to and from, so it must be drivable on the street.

 

get some Koni yellow's get them re-valved to handle higher rates. Then ask around on what people like as far as rates. (there was a recent thread in the RR-autoX forum about good rates for a g3 teg.) Purchase some Ground control coilover, with the desired rates. While your at it you could get some GC "race mounts". that should be around or less thatn 2000 dollars. Use the extra money you saved and go to the track and drive.

in all honesty most of the shock dyno's i have seen from the JDM bling world, haven't been impressive for the money you pay.

with the above setup, your working with Koni- probably the best shock manufacture. Eibach ERS springs- they are up there for the top spring manufacture's also. and Ground control componetes which are race proven and wont break on you.

 

99.99999999999999% of H-T Members wouldn`t really need anything over $1,000. If you want to spend money, look into some of the goodies Koni offers. Most of the Japanese "coilovers" are garbage.

Ryan.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get some Koni yellow's get them re-valved to handle higher rates. Then ask around on what people like as far as rates. (</TD></TR></TABLE>

No way.

If you are going to spend $2000, then call Koni and have them build you a set of 3011's.

 

I guess I'm surprised that people aren't fans of some of the Japanese units.

The reason I don't want to bother with Konis and a GC setup is that I want the guess work taken out. I want a quality set of dampers with matched springs.

Both the Mugen N1 and Spoon N1 damper kits have been used in the N1 endurance series in Japan, so you've got some evidence/data to back up the fact that they've been professionally used and the success has been there.

Any opinions on the Spoon N1 Damper kit? Goes for right around $2K, I believe.

How much does it lower the car? What are the possible settings? Is the car still streetable when using a softer setting, or is it all together unstreetable?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess I'm surprised that people aren't fans of some of the Japanese units.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And there's a reason for it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reason I don't want to bother with Konis and a GC setup is that I want the guess work taken out. I want a quality set of dampers with matched springs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dont let the 'JDM' units fool you because they come in nice packaging. If $2k is your budget, Koni 3011 is where its at. Get in touch with this guy: https://honda-tech.com/zerouser...27915

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Both the Mugen N1 and Spoon N1 damper kits have been used in the N1 endurance series in Japan, so you've got some evidence/data to back up the fact that they've been professionally used and the success has been there. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Could be a good option.

Remember though, the suspension is probably not your limiting factor in going fast.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The reason I don't want to bother with Konis and a GC setup is that I want the guess work taken out. I want a quality set of dampers with matched springs.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Run far far away from the JDM stuff then. They are all over the place....

 

Although just a bit out of the price range you posted, Ausmith should be able to give you a good review of the Mugen NZ's. He had them on his last ITR, and has since swapped them onto his EG.

 

what kind was racing will you be doing? well if its circuit racing... Omni Power Sports full coilovers are excellent. btw still streetable at the same time.. a little bit rough, but still worth it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by genetsang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well if its circuit racing... Omni Power Sports full coilovers are excellent </TD></TR></TABLE>

No.

Let me ask you - have you ever raced (really race - on a track - with a real race car) with that suspension?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No.

Let me ask you - have you ever raced (really race - on a track - with a real race car) with that suspension?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no, but then i drive really fast on the streets and the off ramps. But i think my C pillar bars help my car handle like a race car. so there...

 

Mugen NZ or the Spoon Showas would be a logical upgrade. They can both handle spring rates above 20kg/mm.

Or you could spend a bit more and get these:




Modified by kengs at 8:49 PM 10/20/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kengs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Or you could spend a bit more and get these:</TD></TR></TABLE>
or spend a lot more and get Motons/JRZ's.

 

Bling!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No way.

If you are going to spend $2000, then call Koni and have them build you a set of 3011's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

why spend that much though. I doubt he needs those, or would be able to use them to there full capabilities.

Yes he has a big budget but why spend all of it.

he can spend less and get a setup that will be exellent for what he needs. and have more money to spend on track time.

the 3011's are really really nice but are over the top for the majority of people. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess I'm surprised that people aren't fans of some of the Japanese units.

The reason I don't want to bother with Konis and a GC setup is that I want the guess work taken out. I want a quality set of dampers with matched springs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Guess work??? i dunno whats guessing about, Koni dampers they are proven time and Time again. CRX lee can set up everything you need. whats the guess work about, Eibach ERS? I spring that is time and time again tested true to hold up to its rate over prolonged periods.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Both the Mugen N1 and Spoon N1 damper kits have been used in the N1 endurance series in Japan, so you've got some evidence/data to back up the fact that they've been professionally used and the success has been there. </TD></TR></TABLE>

suspension is deferent from car to car, driver to driver. Just becuase those car's are set up and win with those setups doesn't mean you will like it. With the Koni/GC setup you can get what you like. paly around with and get different springs with different rates no problem.

Im sure the Mugen and Spoon setup's are great, but if your gona spend that kinda money on suspension. get your moneys worth and go with the 3011's. You will get alot more for you money.

Koni's are proven too. Look to all kinds of racing, Koni is there in all types.

 

 

get some zeal super funtions

 

I think we need to get some assumptions out of the way. I don't drive 9/10th on dark forest roads at night, or drive fast thru off-ramps, or take the car for occasional twisties. Here's my profile:

1. Took a 1-day racing class back in May 2000 and got hooked
2. Attended 2-3 lapping days that same year, using the school's cars
3. In Jan 2001, bought the Type-R, strictly for my new found hobby
4. In March 2001, with 800 miles on the odometer, attended my first track day in the ITR
5. In July 2002, took 2-day SCCA competition school, and got a novice license
6. Due to several factors, mostly the money it takes to get into racing, I couldn't do the remaining 3 races to get my regional license, and my SCCA membership lapsed last year.
7. Overall, I have about 35 track days under my belt.

My plan is to do OTC in '06 (no budget for '05) and hopefully begin competitive racing that same year.

At present, I'm not a race-car driver, but I also don't think I'm casual lapper, either. I'm ready to race wheel-to-wheel, but having just bought a house, it's going to have to wait one more year.

So, I don't want people telling me if a suspension is too much for my capabilities, etc. There have been some good suggestions and I'll check them all out.

Right now, the leading candidates are the Spoon N1 Dampers, and the Koni setup that's been mentioned.

I don't think I have the $$ for Motons, though.

 

My comment about you not knowing how to use them or need them wasn't meant to attack you. I don't doubt your driving skills. But when you get into a setup like the 3011 with compression and rebound, you really need to know what your doing, with suspension that is. I'd be willing to guess that 90% of club racers don't know how to use this setup.

Again if you set on spending all that money on suspension then by all means go for the koni 3011's. Its superior to Mugens/spoon in every way.

For the people suggesting Japanese companies, Every shock dyno i have seen, shows that they are on line with Koni yellows but the low speed isn't there like it is on the yellows. Now the koni's are a great shock, but when you pay upwards of 1000 dollars for something that you could have paid 500 for, i think you need to reconsider, your priorities

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My comment about you not knowing how to use them or need them wasn't meant to attack you. I don't doubt your driving skills. But when you get into a setup like the 3011 with compression and rebound, you really need to know what your doing, with suspension that is. I'd be willing to guess that 90% of club racers don't know how to use this setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Understood. I just wanted to let everyone know my potential as a driver and what I intend to do with the car. A few people wondered about that. I agree with you that getting a setup like the 3011 could very well be overkill. That's why I want to research, ask questions from folks who know more than I, and then decide on a suspension. And spend next year as a learning year on the track, and try to understand all aspects of how the suspension works with the car.

 

Revalved yellows + custom rated GC's.

I've been running on the revalved yellows since my first lapping day in the R, and they've held up to every expectation, even with the stock springs. This winter I'm going to break down my needs and decide what rates to get for the GC's. I've been thinking 600 f/r, or 600 f, 650 r.

I dont know much about the 3011's, but they are spendy...not saying revalved yellows + GC's aren't.

 

As the damper dyno charts and information is being released by people we trust, it's true that many heretofore well touted JDM setups are coming out of the testing looking less than ideal, and we can see why they haven't been as successful in the USA as you'd have thought.

In view of these comments, my warning about listening to other people goes <u>double</u>.

Talk to people who are in the racing series you're interested in and see what they are using.

I can tell you what works in DC2 ITR in H2 and H1 Honda Challenge, but I can't tell you what works in SCCA races that you're interested in.

If you're absolutely determined about this, then you need to get the car off the road.

A suspension that's winning races isn't going to be very streetable at all.

We had a very well known Honda Challenge driver for a couple of years who'd race in H2, but drive his car to and from the track. He was, however, in it for the fun and to make the point that you didn't have to bankrupt yourself to have this fun. He wasn't in it to win races.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
5. In July 2002, took 2-day SCCA competition school, and got a novice license</TD></TR></TABLE>

What car did you do this in? Rented something? Or does j00r ITR have the required safety equipment?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fso_BamBam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as purpose, the car is to be used exclusively on the track, but driven to and from, so it must be drivable on the street.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, hang on a minute. Are you going to be driving this car to work and the grocery store, or not? I think you're getting carried away for a daily driver.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why spend that much though. I doubt he needs those, or would be able to use them to there full capabilities.

Yes he has a big budget but why spend all of it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because suspension is the most important factor in 'going fast' after the nut loose behind the wheel. Have you priced out a 3011 setup? I'm guessing not.

Think about what revalving yellows costs.... new shocks - $550-$600.... rebuild/revalve/shorten fronts/convert rears to externally adjustable - $700+ .... GC sleeves w/springs - $300-$350. Now compare that to 3011's.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he can spend less and get a setup that will be exellent for what he needs. and have more money to spend on track time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You will outgrow the Koni/GC setup pretty quickly. I had it, and have ridden with it - no doubt its good, but its not the holy grrrrrrrail of suspension products.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the 3011's are really really nice but are over the top for the majority of people.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why? Have you driven on them? Have you talked to people with those shocks? It will take a few test days to really dial in the shock settings, spring rates, alignment - with the proper tools - if you're willing to put in the time to dial it in, it will be a much better setup than getting on the bandwagon for Koni/GC setup.