Ok, i have done the searches just like everyone else, and read all there is to read on tuning.....i would really like to get some good discussion going on about h22a specific tuning

stuff like fuel pressure settings, vafc fuel map adjustments, timing adjustments, changing injector sizes

also, any input anyone can give on tuning with a wideband and laptop with a vafc....this is a feasable tuning option for a lot of us(vafc and wideband)

i would like to get some good opinions out there for bashing.....haha i mean revision...

my general thoughts are as follows, correct or agree with me, but here we go:

1) tune air/fuel to about 13.3:1 - 13.8:1

2) for most bolt ons (like what i have, check the sig) the stock injectors are ok, i believe they are 345cc peak and hold, 94 jdm h22a, correct me if i am wrong

3) maybe a slight adjustment on timing to compensate for the vafc messing with the timing maps when you alter the fuel map...what i have been told is that when you change the fuel map, which the vafc does by editing the map sensor reading, the computer bases the ingition timing off the map readings, and the vafc ends up really messing with the timing a bunch....so anyone have any input on whether this is right or not, remember, i heard it all from a local tuner, whom i trust is proficient, but im always open to other opinions...

4) i dont even know where to start with the fpr settings, but here is what i dreamt up....if the vafc messes with the timing a bunch when you mess with the fuel a bunch....why not use an adjustable fpr to lower the amount of changes you have to make with the vafc in order to get the a/f right....do as much as you can with the fpr, then do the fine tuning with the vafc.....that would make for less of the vafc screwing with timing....just wondering what the safe range of adjustment is, like what psi is too low and what is too high....and also if anyone has any brands they would reccomend say so....

Thanks guys
Matt

 

1) 13.8 is too lean. Stick with 13.0

2) correct

3) https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=841443
That's a really good post reguarding timing and the AFC Hack. Take 2 and 2 and gear it towards NA.

4) On a simple bolt-on NA car you are making tuning harder than it has to be in my opinion. On a set-up that you described the timing advance is not going to be severe enough to do detrimental damage to your engine. The only time I up fuel pressure is if a large injector (880-1000cc) is used to help idle or if the given injector is not large enough for the estimated whp level.

 

ok, it was kinda hard to see what he was sayin in that post but i get the general gist of it. but in regards to your #4, im sure that it wont be detrimental to my engine, but would the change in timing seriously effect the way the engine performs

though it may not damage it, it may restrict hp gain.

i was thinking to lower fuel pressure to give less fuel since my car is running quite rich...that way i minimize the amount that the timing is altered b/c i would think that the less it is played with the better, correct me if i am wrong...

 

Yes I know how timing affects an engine.

If you are that concerned with how your engine performs, why are you wasting your money on the AFC? Let's see.... a new s200 unit for $260 or a new afc unit for 350ish. hmmmmm.....

Carry on the discussion though. I'll let someone else fill in the gaps since the answers can be found in about 10 other threads.

 

first off, im not saying that you dont know anything about tuning, i trust what you say. i was asking you if you think that changing the timing around a lot will affect hp with a gain/loss.....and its not a crap afc, its an apexi vafc I. why would i buy a new one?

i was just hoping to maybe discuss this on a prelude level and localize the info....

thanks for the help....

 

So the 13.0 a/f ration is pretty much standard for N/A applications? The goal would be to maintain this a/f ratio throught out the entire RPM band at WOT and VTEC?

 

Use fuel to heatsoak up top and run a but more rich. My Uberdata tune runs as rich as 12.8 on top. I wouldn't run 13.0 on the entire powerband, most obviously at cruise loads. You'll devour gas like a GM.

For the ignition-deficient tuners, you're going to have to accept what you have and just throw in fuel to keep stuff from getting hurt to bad. Actual power gains from changing fuel numbers is kind of small. Think of it more as a saftey device. Yes kiddies, more gasoline will keep your engine from blowing up.

About your FPR work: The purpose of having an FPR should be more in the sense of combating boost pressure or ghetto rigging stock injectors. On a normaly aspirated vehicle, Anthony's right.

 

ask any hondata peps and the tell ya APEXI VAFC = DUNG
it splices into the wiring on the ecu which is not good to begin with and it only fools the map sensor into changing fuel ratios it does not actually cahnge and tune fuel maps like a s200 setup could that is why I switched to that setup --- would you rather fool the sensors into adding and leaning fuel or build a custom fuel map for you re mods that removes rev limits and speed governors and allows custom vtec engagements that maximize air flow and fuel on a lot much much fine tuning methods ----

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
On a set-up that you described the timing advance is not going to be severe enough to do detrimental damage to your engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As I recall correctly the Helms says 15% +/- 2

So if I have the timing set at 17%, you don't think that will
have any long term harm on my engine vs 15%?

 

nope, you can run at 17 btdc base timing all day long. h22s love timing

 

For some info on tuning with VFAC on a OBD2 car read this:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=976718

 

Anthony, you said that the H22 should be tuned n/a around 13.0:1.........every post I've ever read on n/a tuning has recommended around 13.5ish. Any reasononing behind running it a bit richer?

 

I tune all NA cars to 13.0:1-13.2:1. 13.5:1 will make more power but you are starting to get on the edge of being lean... you may be able to get away with it. It's really the tuners preference and I tend to tune on the safe side. 5whp isn't worth blowing up a motor. There are tons of factors that can affect the a/f ratio as well.... weather, altitude changes, bad tank of gas, etc etc. So it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Freemantle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Yes kiddies, more gasoline will keep your engine from blowing up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

you can also wear out your motor pretty quick by doing that also...

 

ok, i know that the vafc is by no means comparable to the s200 or any real engine control system. what i am asking is what is the best tuning advice for people that cant do the hondata, for whatever reason, mine being money.

im dont like the fact that i had to splice ecu wiring, though its not that big of a deal on my ecu obd jumper....and i know its fooling the sensors, its just that this is what i have, and i know there are many others in the same boat. i want to make the best of what i have, and i would get the hondata if i could and do it the right way....but thats just not an option at the moment...

i would get a hondata and tune with that if i could, if anyone has one for sale, and an ecu to go with it for less than $150 (what i payed for my vafc) then i will buy it. but im going to go ahead and assume that noone does, so thats not much of an option.

but back to the topic of my thread....

my general gathering on the fpr idea is that its stupid so im dropping that....and im gonna trust precisionh23 on the bit lower a/f settings, safer is always better.....i didnt get a chance to read the other article on tuning, but thanks for all the help.

back on the hondata note, i spent some time reading more about the s200 and i really love what i see.....i would love to get one....but i need the money to get a new ecu and the s200 unit, plus i would like the rom editior so i could do a bit of tuning myself.....if anyone is in the market for a obdI p13 and is willing to pay like $250 let me know....b/c i dont think anyone will sell me a hondata and ecu for under that, maybe not even within $75 of that, but let me know

thanks again

 

You'll need more than the romulator to tune yourself. You'll need the romulator ($180), pocket programmer ($180) then the rom editor v3.5 ($200) and the datalogging option is also nice to have ($200).

And if you've never dicked around with an EMS I don't recommend learning by yourself. If you do choose to go with the hondata, typically it will run $450 for the s200 and socketed ecu. I normally charge $100 for a NA street tune with use of a wide-band.

If you are planning on tuning your afc make sure you do have access to a wide-band. It's the cheaper route to go and if you are simply running bolt-ons then the AFC will work fine for you. As far as timing, you'll be fine. More timing means more power and yes due to the H series larger bore it loves more timing. But there is always a limit... so don't go advancing your dizzy to 22 degrees of base timing. And if you are obd2 forget about adjusting your timing unless you convert your ecu to an obd1. When you have a chance, read the other article's that we've linked you too. Your answer has only been 2 clicks away the whole time.

 

Honda engines I've tuned for na made their best numbers around 13.5 afr. I agree with running a little richer than this to account for variabilty after you disconnect the wide band, but not in the 12's like stock P13's tend to. The H series I've seen like their intake cams advanced a few degrees, if at all. If you are messing with cam timing, don't forget that it can change ignition timing (depending where the crank sensor is and which cam you are adjusting). For the fpr and afc hackers, don't forget that the ecu may try to undo your "tuning" depending on the hack and and whether you are tuning WOT only. The ecu will run in closed loop for part throttle cruise, where it will use the O2 sensor to try for 14.7 afr (good mileage). This correction is also used for WOT. Just something to keep in mind. OBD 2 might be a little smarter about this, I'm not sure. I would suggest an OBD 1 conversion for any Prelude owner trying to tune their setup. Honda is a little conservative with their ignition maps but don't go nuts, that's an old clunker V8 approach. More advance is not always better. The bearings can really take a pounding for that extra 2hp. Otherwise I think general engine tuning techniques apply to H series. Happy tuning....