Questions
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Honda-Tech Member
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Questions
Okay, here goes:
Why is it that a header for an import is so much more expensive than those for domestics?
Why is it that ceramic coated headers for domestics are more expensive than stainless steel, when stainless steel is more expensive than ceramic coated for imports?
Does this mean that ceramic coated is better? or that they ceramic is better for domestics and SS for imports? Cause that wouldn't make any sense.
Sorry if this post sucks, but I don't know the answer. TIA.
Why is it that a header for an import is so much more expensive than those for domestics?
Why is it that ceramic coated headers for domestics are more expensive than stainless steel, when stainless steel is more expensive than ceramic coated for imports?
Does this mean that ceramic coated is better? or that they ceramic is better for domestics and SS for imports? Cause that wouldn't make any sense.
Sorry if this post sucks, but I don't know the answer. TIA.
shit post warrior
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 9,141
Likes: 5
From: Socal, CA
Re: Questions (SoCal ITR)
Chris,
Here's my stab at your question..........I think it has something to do with Honda technology and the subsequent cost of production of the item for the manufacturer. I hope this gives you some idea...I know it's kinda vague!
Here's my stab at your question..........I think it has something to do with Honda technology and the subsequent cost of production of the item for the manufacturer. I hope this gives you some idea...I know it's kinda vague!
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,929
Likes: 2
From: Kelowna Canada
Re: Questions (SoCal ITR)
Here is an interesting article from SEMA news regarding this:
The Red-Hot Sport Compact Market
The Old Guard Embraces the Small Go-Fast Cars
By Edward Sanchez
It seems lately, everyone wants a piece of the fast-growing import market. Reaching out to this new market segment presents a role reversal to many of the established domestic aftermarket players. Established muscle car names such as Edelbrock, Holley, Jacobs Electronics, Comp Cams and others have attempted to entrench themselves firmly in this arena heretofore dominated by import brands. Yet establishing credibility in the sport compact segment often means starting from scratch as far as design and engineering and often distribution and marketing channels as well. For enthusiasts whose memories do not include Watergate, Woodstock or Vietnam, ask them who the big players in the hot-rod segment are, and more often than not, you’ll get such foreign names as HKS, GReddy, APEXi or Tanabe.
"Our major obstacle is promoting the Holley brand in this market. Holley has a great name and is known very well in the traditional muscle car market, but is very rarely looked at for import performance parts," said Jason Bruce, marketing manager for Holley Performance Prods.
However, it’s possible to reach these buyers if companies do their homework. Fierce loyalty to imported brands seems to be limited primarily to the West Coast, according to Matt Patrick, manager for Comp Cams’ new ZEX division, which is dedicated to the development of products for the import/sport compact market. "I have seen that level of loyalty in Southern California, but in most other regions, enthusiasts are shopping mainly for price, features and benefits," he said. Knowing what the hot models are also helps.
Not surprisingly, the ZEX cams for the Honda B-series motors are the most popular offerings. "We started initially with cams for the Nissan SR20 and then developed the D-series Honda cams and finally the B-series cams. We expect the B-series cams to remain our best sellers for the foreseeable future," he said.
When asked about the new Nissan QR25 and Honda K-series engines, Patrick said the newest models and engines are not necessarily the best bets from a business standpoint. "We’ve found that a lot of import enthusiasts are on a limited budget. If they buy a new car, they initially start with bolt-ons like an intake or nitrous system. It costs about $20,000 to $25,000 in R&D to develop a new cam, and if the market is simply not there yet, it’s hard to justify putting those resources into product development."
However, low price is not the only thing import enthusiasts look for in a product. "Import enthusiasts have a very discriminating eye for quality. You can sell a set of black painted headers to a guy with an older small-block, but the import owner wants something that looks good and performs well, for a reasonable price. The import market has really forced us to raise the bar as far as the quality and appearance of our products," Patrick said.
"Import enthusiasts like to show off their toys. The parts have to look as good as they work," concurred Holley’s Bruce.
Edelbrock, a name synonymous with performance since the days of the dry lakebed racers of the 1940s, decided to partner with Javier Gutierrez, a well-known import performance guru based in Southern California’s San Gabriel Valley, as a way to gain a better understanding of the market niche.
"We have been researching the import market for the past few years, but last year was our big leap into seriously producing a line of products for this market. We teamed up with JG Engine Dynamics to market them under the JG Edelbrock name. It made sense to work alongside his R&D team with our own and produce some high performance parts," said Rich Barsamian, national sales manager for Edelbrock.
For Edelbrock the greatest obstacle to being competitive in the import arena has not been name recognition, but rather the low prices of some products that companies are importing from overseas. "The manufacturers that are importing products from overseas and selling at ridiculously low prices skews the marketplace and gives a false sense of value to the consumer," he said.
Another challenge for traditional muscle car parts companies is seeking out new channels of distribution. Import owners are not likely to visit the same speed shop that the Camaro and Chevelle owners do. Many companies are gravitating toward the larger mail-order warehouse companies, in addition to smaller independent shops.
"The distribution channel for import parts is quite different, and we have been working hard to penetrate this distribution channel to get all of our brands appropriate visibility," Bruce said. "Advertising in print and on the Internet have given us the most exposure and the most efficient line of communication. The import enthusiasts are computer savvy and spend more time on the Internet getting news and information than any other automotive enthusiast group. When we came out with our sport compact catalog, it made sense to also have a sport compact section on our website so the parts are easy to find."
Made famous by its precise engineering tolerances, tuning Honda motors without the help of nitrous or forced induction does not net the huge gains in horsepower seen in the old days of throwing on some high-flow heads, a lumpy cam and free-breathing headers on Detroit iron.
"The import engines are already so well-designed from the factory that it’s harder to develop products that will produce a significant increase in performance," Barsamian said. **this is probably a source of higher cost**
"The products developed for this market need a new way of thinking," said Bruce. "What works for a big-block Chevy does not necessarily work for these engines. Developing products that will perform flawlessly with today’s electronics and fuel systems is paramount. The products also have to be compact, because the engine compartments in these cars are already crowded," he said.
Working on a smaller scale in engineering parameters was also necessary for Jacobs Electronics, a major manufacturer of aftermarket performance ignition systems.
"Most imports have a small distributor cap, which is prone to arc-over when coupled with a standard multiple spark ignition system. This represented a special challenge to our R&D staff to find a combination that would make more power without this side effect," said Jacobs Electronics’ Mike Abney, director of wholesale distribution sales and motor sports. "Through many hours of R&D we produced the i.C.E. Pak, a super-fast digital ignition system that makes multiple sparks over 11 degrees of crankshaft rotation. This effectively eliminated the dangerous cases of arc-over in small import distributor caps and increased horsepower significantly."
For most aftermarket companies the long-term trend is clear. There are going to be fewer muscle-car era vehicles on the road as the ones that are not bought by restorers or customizers are frequently destroyed, often due to state-subsidized incentives to clean the air.
"Not only is it our strategy, but it’s also the future. The same enthusiasts who are racing Honda Civics now will be racing them 10 years from now. This new sport compact market is really the 21st century’s equivalent to the muscle car era of the 1960s and 1970s. We must embrace it," Barsamian said.
"Let’s face it, the market trend for traditional muscle cars such as the GTO, Challenger and Chevelles of the 1960s and ’70s is flat," said Bruce. "Holley has always been well-known for its domestic performance parts, but times are changing and to compete you need to be diversified. Three years ago, Holley acquired the NOS, Airmass and Earl’s companies, all widely used and well-known in the import market. So we made it our goal to develop new products, expand existing lines and give added focus to the import market," he said.
"We are dedicated to making and continually improving ignition products specifically designed for imports, and we expect it to become at least half of our business," said Jacobs’ Abney.
The Red-Hot Sport Compact Market
The Old Guard Embraces the Small Go-Fast Cars
By Edward Sanchez
It seems lately, everyone wants a piece of the fast-growing import market. Reaching out to this new market segment presents a role reversal to many of the established domestic aftermarket players. Established muscle car names such as Edelbrock, Holley, Jacobs Electronics, Comp Cams and others have attempted to entrench themselves firmly in this arena heretofore dominated by import brands. Yet establishing credibility in the sport compact segment often means starting from scratch as far as design and engineering and often distribution and marketing channels as well. For enthusiasts whose memories do not include Watergate, Woodstock or Vietnam, ask them who the big players in the hot-rod segment are, and more often than not, you’ll get such foreign names as HKS, GReddy, APEXi or Tanabe.
"Our major obstacle is promoting the Holley brand in this market. Holley has a great name and is known very well in the traditional muscle car market, but is very rarely looked at for import performance parts," said Jason Bruce, marketing manager for Holley Performance Prods.
However, it’s possible to reach these buyers if companies do their homework. Fierce loyalty to imported brands seems to be limited primarily to the West Coast, according to Matt Patrick, manager for Comp Cams’ new ZEX division, which is dedicated to the development of products for the import/sport compact market. "I have seen that level of loyalty in Southern California, but in most other regions, enthusiasts are shopping mainly for price, features and benefits," he said. Knowing what the hot models are also helps.
Not surprisingly, the ZEX cams for the Honda B-series motors are the most popular offerings. "We started initially with cams for the Nissan SR20 and then developed the D-series Honda cams and finally the B-series cams. We expect the B-series cams to remain our best sellers for the foreseeable future," he said.
When asked about the new Nissan QR25 and Honda K-series engines, Patrick said the newest models and engines are not necessarily the best bets from a business standpoint. "We’ve found that a lot of import enthusiasts are on a limited budget. If they buy a new car, they initially start with bolt-ons like an intake or nitrous system. It costs about $20,000 to $25,000 in R&D to develop a new cam, and if the market is simply not there yet, it’s hard to justify putting those resources into product development."
However, low price is not the only thing import enthusiasts look for in a product. "Import enthusiasts have a very discriminating eye for quality. You can sell a set of black painted headers to a guy with an older small-block, but the import owner wants something that looks good and performs well, for a reasonable price. The import market has really forced us to raise the bar as far as the quality and appearance of our products," Patrick said.
"Import enthusiasts like to show off their toys. The parts have to look as good as they work," concurred Holley’s Bruce.
Edelbrock, a name synonymous with performance since the days of the dry lakebed racers of the 1940s, decided to partner with Javier Gutierrez, a well-known import performance guru based in Southern California’s San Gabriel Valley, as a way to gain a better understanding of the market niche.
"We have been researching the import market for the past few years, but last year was our big leap into seriously producing a line of products for this market. We teamed up with JG Engine Dynamics to market them under the JG Edelbrock name. It made sense to work alongside his R&D team with our own and produce some high performance parts," said Rich Barsamian, national sales manager for Edelbrock.
For Edelbrock the greatest obstacle to being competitive in the import arena has not been name recognition, but rather the low prices of some products that companies are importing from overseas. "The manufacturers that are importing products from overseas and selling at ridiculously low prices skews the marketplace and gives a false sense of value to the consumer," he said.
Another challenge for traditional muscle car parts companies is seeking out new channels of distribution. Import owners are not likely to visit the same speed shop that the Camaro and Chevelle owners do. Many companies are gravitating toward the larger mail-order warehouse companies, in addition to smaller independent shops.
"The distribution channel for import parts is quite different, and we have been working hard to penetrate this distribution channel to get all of our brands appropriate visibility," Bruce said. "Advertising in print and on the Internet have given us the most exposure and the most efficient line of communication. The import enthusiasts are computer savvy and spend more time on the Internet getting news and information than any other automotive enthusiast group. When we came out with our sport compact catalog, it made sense to also have a sport compact section on our website so the parts are easy to find."
Made famous by its precise engineering tolerances, tuning Honda motors without the help of nitrous or forced induction does not net the huge gains in horsepower seen in the old days of throwing on some high-flow heads, a lumpy cam and free-breathing headers on Detroit iron.
"The import engines are already so well-designed from the factory that it’s harder to develop products that will produce a significant increase in performance," Barsamian said. **this is probably a source of higher cost**
"The products developed for this market need a new way of thinking," said Bruce. "What works for a big-block Chevy does not necessarily work for these engines. Developing products that will perform flawlessly with today’s electronics and fuel systems is paramount. The products also have to be compact, because the engine compartments in these cars are already crowded," he said.
Working on a smaller scale in engineering parameters was also necessary for Jacobs Electronics, a major manufacturer of aftermarket performance ignition systems.
"Most imports have a small distributor cap, which is prone to arc-over when coupled with a standard multiple spark ignition system. This represented a special challenge to our R&D staff to find a combination that would make more power without this side effect," said Jacobs Electronics’ Mike Abney, director of wholesale distribution sales and motor sports. "Through many hours of R&D we produced the i.C.E. Pak, a super-fast digital ignition system that makes multiple sparks over 11 degrees of crankshaft rotation. This effectively eliminated the dangerous cases of arc-over in small import distributor caps and increased horsepower significantly."
For most aftermarket companies the long-term trend is clear. There are going to be fewer muscle-car era vehicles on the road as the ones that are not bought by restorers or customizers are frequently destroyed, often due to state-subsidized incentives to clean the air.
"Not only is it our strategy, but it’s also the future. The same enthusiasts who are racing Honda Civics now will be racing them 10 years from now. This new sport compact market is really the 21st century’s equivalent to the muscle car era of the 1960s and 1970s. We must embrace it," Barsamian said.
"Let’s face it, the market trend for traditional muscle cars such as the GTO, Challenger and Chevelles of the 1960s and ’70s is flat," said Bruce. "Holley has always been well-known for its domestic performance parts, but times are changing and to compete you need to be diversified. Three years ago, Holley acquired the NOS, Airmass and Earl’s companies, all widely used and well-known in the import market. So we made it our goal to develop new products, expand existing lines and give added focus to the import market," he said.
"We are dedicated to making and continually improving ignition products specifically designed for imports, and we expect it to become at least half of our business," said Jacobs’ Abney.
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Honda CRX / EF Civic (1988 - 1991)
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