Ok, so I'm finally in the finishing phases of my stereo install, and I go to hook up my power/ground wire for sub amps, only to find that it is very difficult to make the bend (90 degrees) to screw to the amp. Picture a flat piece of 3/4" MDF. There are holes drilled in it, where the wire will come from underneath and connect to the amp. But of course, space is extremely tight (and I've tried many other options, trying to move the amps to differnt places). Anyway, the 4 awg wire has to come up from underneath and abruptly turn right (90 degrees) where it is crimped to a spade terminal and connected to the amp. However, it seems like this is a very harsh bend, and puts a lot of stress on the terminal trying to hold the wire in place. A 90 degree spade terminal, would work wonderfully for this, but I see that Pheonix Gold is the only one that makes em and is for 8 awg. Any suggestions, sorry no pics yet.
Thanks

 

For the distance ( < 1" ), using the 8awg right angle will not be a concern. 8awg can still carry a ton of current, especially over that distance. You would just have to trim the 4awg down a little and use some shrink tubing to make a secure connection.

I mean lets face it, your amp doens't 4awg thick terminals, running to 4awg traces on the circuit board running to transistors with 4awg leads. But they all are short distances, so its OK.

 

so I could get like a 4 into 8 gauge adapter and then run the 8 awg to the amp? the only setback is that the holes that I drilled in the MDF (already carpetted) are the same diameter as the 4 awg wire, so it's nice and tight fit, but the 8 awg would look loose. i have the plastic end pieces that cover the wires on the amp, but I have so little room to work with that they won't even fit

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CrazyModGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, so I'm finally in the finishing phases of my stereo install, and I go to hook up my power/ground wire for sub amps, only to find that it is very difficult to make the bend (90 degrees) to screw to the amp. Picture a flat piece of 3/4" MDF. There are holes drilled in it, where the wire will come from underneath and connect to the amp. But of course, space is extremely tight (and I've tried many other options, trying to move the amps to differnt places). Anyway, the 4 awg wire has to come up from underneath and abruptly turn right (90 degrees) where it is crimped to a spade terminal and connected to the amp. However, it seems like this is a very harsh bend, and puts a lot of stress on the terminal trying to hold the wire in place. A 90 degree spade terminal, would work wonderfully for this, but I see that Pheonix Gold is the only one that makes em and is for 8 awg. Any suggestions, sorry no pics yet.
Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>Pico makes a lot of connecters,[not overpriced "gold" plated ones] check at electronic supply stores,[not radio shack] 94

 

If the holes are drilled for a tight fit with 4 gauge, slip in a grommet for 8 gauge... Maybe a little wood putty first, then the grommet, should work okay.

 

if you drop from 4 ga to 8 ga, you must fuse it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C_EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the holes are drilled for a tight fit with 4 gauge, slip in a grommet for 8 gauge... Maybe a little wood putty first, then the grommet, should work okay.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes, I coudl use a grommet, etc., but the thin is, the amp "rack" is already carpetted, so the hole is drilled through the carpet and the MDF. even if I puttied up the hole to securely fit the 8 awg, then you would still see a larger diameter space of carpet missing around the wire

 

unless I completely recarpetted the amp rack, but I have little markings of exactly where the amps need to line up already

 

here is a pic, kinda shitty, but shows what I am talking about. note the small gap that I circled. this is where the terminal ends and the wire insulation begins. it is such a sharp bend that the insulation doesn't stay lined up with the terminal, and about 1/8-1/4" of wire is bare underneath. does this make sense?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Westrock2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the distance ( &lt; 1" ), using the 8awg right angle will not be a concern. 8awg can still carry a ton of current, especially over that distance. You would just have to trim the 4awg down a little and use some shrink tubing to make a secure connection.

I mean lets face it, your amp doens't 4awg thick terminals, running to 4awg traces on the circuit board running to transistors with 4awg leads. But they all are short distances, so its OK.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i not sure i fully understand your logic here. the length of the wire determines how much current it can carry?? i dont think so. The material and thickness and temperature of the wire determine how much current it can carry. by "trimming down" the wire you've essentially jsut reduced the wire gauge and the maximum current it can carry. for example, you take a 10ft piece of 4awg wire (normally fused at approx 100amps), trim down any portion of the wire to the same diameter as an 8 awg wire (normally fused at 50amps), you can only run 50 amps through that wire.

 

i know this is partly true - you can put more current through 5 feet of 4 awg wire than you can through 20 feet of 4 awg wire

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CrazyModGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know this is partly true - you can put more current through 5 feet of 4 awg wire than you can through 20 feet of 4 awg wire</TD></TR></TABLE>

where did you hear this?

 

look at any wire gauge application chart that's out there. part of the table/chart is length of wire to be used, and you can see that longer lengths handle less current than shorter lengths. it's not a determining factor, but it is still true. let me try and find a chart to post as an example

 

well maybe it's the opposite. according to the chart below, it appears that a larger size is needed as length increases. maybe I've had the wrong concept all along. dunno, doesn't really change any aspect of my install though. interesting too; according to the chart, I could easily get away with running 8 awg wire straight from the dist block, as it's only like 3 feet away. problem is I've already bough the dist and ground blocks and all 4 awg wire (good amount of $), and don't feel like using 8 instead. better too big, than too small a gauge

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
for example, you take a 10ft piece of 4awg wire (normally fused at approx 100amps), trim down any portion of the wire to the same diameter as an 8 awg wire (normally fused at 50amps), you can only run 50 amps through that wire.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The following is my logic, feel free to disagree.

I agree.....but show me a capacitor, or an inductor, or a resistor, or a transistor with 4awg or even 10awg leads on it.

I understand what your saying, but the 4awg wire terminates at the amp into a screw terminal which is soldered onto traces on a PCB. If he runs the cable all the way to the amp, and then the last 1" adds a smaller connector its not gonna be any different. For the majority of the distance go safe and use a big cable for the low restitance

Over at Epanorama (lots of good stuff there) they have this to say

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In mains wiring there are two considerations, voltage drop and heat buildup. The smaller the wire is, the higher the resistance is. When the resistance is higher, the wire heats up more, and there is more voltage drop in the wiring. The former is why you need higher-temperature insulation and/or bigger wires for use in conduit; the latter is why you should use larger wire for long runs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


Then as mentioned before, there are many tables that show cable size over distance.

From rec.audio.car

You can see that for 65A @ 20 feet it suggests 0AWG, but @ 0-4 feet it recommends 8AWG. (Longer distances = bigger heatsink....basically)

So maybe the author of the thread should look at the fuse on the amp, and then see what the smallest guage at the smallest distance is appropriate for him and then figure out which termination is appropriate.

 

yes. i think I will just end up bending the terminals to 90 degrees myself. it will look more professional and not put stress on the wire itself. and great news, I just called Kenwood today, because I had my deck sent out for repair (still under 2 year warranty), and they are sending me a brand new X979 as replace, sweet!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Westrock2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The following is my logic, feel free to disagree.

I agree.....but show me a capacitor, or an inductor, or a resistor, or a transistor with 4awg or even 10awg leads on it.

I understand what your saying, but the 4awg wire terminates at the amp into a screw terminal which is soldered onto traces on a PCB. If he runs the cable all the way to the amp, and then the last 1" adds a smaller connector its not gonna be any different. For the majority of the distance go safe and use a big cable for the low restitance

Over at Epanorama (lots of good stuff there) they have this to say


Then as mentioned before, there are many tables that show cable size over distance.

From rec.audio.car

You can see that for 65A @ 20 feet it suggests 0AWG, but @ 0-4 feet it recommends 8AWG. (Longer distances = bigger heatsink....basically)

So maybe the author of the thread should look at the fuse on the amp, and then see what the smallest guage at the smallest distance is appropriate for him and then figure out which termination is appropriate.
</TD></TR></TABLE> Dito all the above
One of the first things I found out when I became an installer, [30+ years ago] and amps for car audio were homemade or mod. home amps or kit amps, was that distance from supply to load makes a differance. I was a welder befor I became an installer, and anytime we changed to longer cables we had to adjust output. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Westrock2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The following is my logic, feel free to disagree.

I agree.....but show me a capacitor, or an inductor, or a resistor, or a transistor with 4awg or even 10awg leads on it.

I understand what your saying, but the 4awg wire terminates at the amp into a screw terminal which is soldered onto traces on a PCB. If he runs the cable all the way to the amp, and then the last 1" adds a smaller connector its not gonna be any different. For the majority of the distance go safe and use a big cable for the low restitance

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with what you're saying which is why i dont think he should be using 4awg in the first place BUT....if he does insist on using the 4awg and trimming it down he should be fusing it at the appropriate equivalent gague wire. if the amp needs 4awg input it will be able to accept it.

ps. fusing is there to protect the wiring not the amp.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Then as mentioned before, there are many tables that show cable size over distance.

From rec.audio.car

You can see that for 65A @ 20 feet it suggests 0AWG, but @ 0-4 feet it recommends 8AWG. (Longer distances = bigger heatsink....basically)

So maybe the author of the thread should look at the fuse on the amp, and then see what the smallest guage at the smallest distance is appropriate for him and then figure out which termination is appropriate.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

which amp that draws 65A and is going to have input for 0awg??

part of the reason for upping the gauge over a longer distance is voltage drop. the more current you run through a wire the greater the voltage drop.

i'll use the a 25ft wire run and 30amp max draw as an example.

keep in mind these are approximate numbers
10awg = 0.73V drop
8awg = 0.46V drop
4awg = 0.18V drop

so as you can see in this case you quite a difference between the wire sizes. in the situation of the original creater of this thread i would run 4awg to a distribution block under the amp rack and then pop a short length of 8awg up to the amp.

 

I know exactly what you need....

scroll half way down - and enjoy the install while you read...this one is a masterpiece:

http://www.streetrace.org/foor...=5822

 

oh, and yes, given a certain, accepted voltage drop....

you can run more current through a shorter wire of the same gauge then a longer

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh, and yes, given a certain, accepted voltage drop....

you can run more current through a shorter wire of the same gauge then a longer</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think what a lot of people misunderstand when it comes to max current for wiring is when people say you can run more current through a short wire than a longer one. that doesnt mean you can run 1000amps through a 6" piece of 8awg. each wire has a max current it can carry regardless of the length but you also have to take into consideration that when its carrying its max current, it will have a big voltage drop and the longer the run the bigger the voltage drop. in this case you have to up the wire size to compensate for this.

I would just like to see people use the proper wire size, connectors and in general the follow good wiring practices.

a few small things to remember.

1. fuse all wiring as close as possible to the source, in this case its the battery.
2. fuse whenever you change wire size.
3. when stripping the wire make sure you dont cut any strands off too.
4. use the right size connectors for the wires. (dont use butt connectors meant for 10-12 awg on 18awg)

i know a lot of this doesnt really apply to the creator of this thread but i guess its good reading for those who may now have known.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know exactly what you need....

scroll half way down - and enjoy the install while you read...this one is a masterpiece:

http://www.streetrace.org/foor...=5822
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha....a lazy bastard like me, too cheap to buy the high powered hair dryer for the heat shrink

Although I'm not fond of Focal, I just really feel they overprice their stuff for what they are. Scan-Speak is great though.


I agree EBP_SI

 

those terminals are pretty much exactly what I am looking for, but with little time and money left, I think I will bend my own terminals. heat shrink or boot will cover it anyway, so even if the bend isn't perfect it won't really be noticeable.
ps - I am so excited. I sent out my Kenwood X959 deck (1.5 years old) for repair, still under warranty. i got it back and it was still acting up a little, so this time when I sent it out, I asked if I could just get the brand new X979 (awesome $600+ deck w/ 5.1 surround and tons of features), and they actually sent me one. sweet. i only paid $360 for my X959 last year, so a pretty good deal.