I've done a good amount of searching and still I wonder... Why use sway bars is they effectively increase spring rate and also reduce the ability of an IRS to work its magic?

My car has no sways, 7k/9k springs, and I think it handles just fine (pretty neutral at this point). People are amazed when I tell them I don't have any swaybars, and I often wonder what the benefit of having them over just swapping springs would be?

The one and only benefit I have found through my reading is that the sway bar can be adjustable, is there anything else that I'm missing?

 

bumps and iregularities in the road are soaked up better?

edit: with less spring & more bar that is

 

backwards. swaybar will generate more bump since it wont let suspension be "independent" <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bumps and iregularities in the road are soaked up better?
edit: with less spring & more bar that is</TD></TR></TABLE>

michael, your car is quite neutral if memory serves me well; which at 38 is pushing things. i don't know what Carroll Smith? and the other gurus theories are on this. may be a matter of personal preference

 

From Carroll Smith:

P. 68 - Tune To Win

Anti-roll bars restrict the rolling tendency of the unsprung mass without increasing the ride rate of the suspension.


P. 69 - Tune To Win

The suspension springs exist to keep the chassis off the ground, to absorb road shocks and to restrict roll. They must be soft enough to give good tire compliance, allow both effective damping and sufficient vertical wheel movement to absorb the shocks of road surface irregularities, and they must be stiff enough to keep the chassis off the ground.


My understanding of this has always been that you can keep increasing spring rates but there will come a point in which you are TOO stiff. At that point the swaybars will come into play. Since, although they do increase effective rates, they do so in different planes.

Smith even states that it would take one hell of a bar to restrict suspension movement enough to cause real problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by o-man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">michael</TD></TR></TABLE>

don't call me that damnit... thats what my girlfriend and mom both call me when they're pissed...

looks like i need to invest in some books... with things slowing down i might actually get a chance to read them!

 

Michael, just install GSR front/ITR rear bar and stop thinking about it. Cheap and effective.

 

Hey, we have been asked this question so many times we finally had an expert answer it for us--and Jay Morris's answer appears in our next issue. The short answer is that you do want bars, as even F1 cars use them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Michael, just install GSR front/ITR rear bar and stop thinking about it. Cheap and effective.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're gonna die.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by David S. Wallens &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey, we have been asked this question so many times we finally had an expert answer it for us--and Jay Morris's answer appears in our next issue. The short answer is that you do want bars, as even F1 cars use them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sweet, I'll be waiting by the mailbox.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MichaelJComputer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
don't call me that damnit... thats what my girlfriend and mom both call me when they're pissed...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is how you introduced yourself to me. Next time just say hey, I'm *******

 

they also distribute the weight better (more equally) between the two tires under conrnering or launching or anything, don't they?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by o-man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Next time just say hey, I'm ******* </TD></TR></TABLE>

That would certainly be appropriate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by o-man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is how you introduced yourself to me. Next time just say hey, I'm ******* </TD></TR></TABLE>

Pass that **** you're smokin'... I never intro myself as Michael... lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they also distribute the weight better (more equally) between the two tires under conrnering or launching or anything, don't they? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't believe they affect acceleration or braking (another benefit?), but I have been known to be wrong.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Michael, just install GSR front/ITR rear bar and stop thinking about it. Cheap and effective.</TD></TR></TABLE>

or better yet an 95 si or integra ls front bar..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MichaelJComputer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I don't believe they really do anything under acceleration or braking </TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct. Although up front i'm not sure if this is a benefit under heavy braking.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MichaelJComputer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't believe they affect acceleration or braking (another benefit?), but I have been known to be wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That assumes you are braking/accelerating in a straight line with no weight bias to one side or the other.

A smaller car that flat-foots the kink at CMP is most definately working its swaybars under acceleration through that corner.

 

I know certian Champion ship winning auto-cross cars that run no sways and really high rates, a sway bar is also a spring, I can thnik of a few crx's that were like that and one mean *** Fiat X1/9. For road racing though I think I would like to have a combination

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know certian Champion ship winning auto-cross cars that run no sways and really high rates, a sway bar is also a spring, I can thnik of a few crx's that were like that and one mean *** Fiat X1/9. For road racing though I think I would like to have a combination</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, but why?

 

Micheal,

I'm sure camber angles would be a reason.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Littleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Micheal</TD></TR></TABLE>

you even spelled it annoyingly wrong.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That assumes you are braking/accelerating in a straight line with no weight bias to one side or the other.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is what I was trying to get at. Its kind of like the sway bar is a spring but the force's that are exserted are shared between the two sides. which would be a benifit while turning, providing downforce on both tires, the outside and the inside, assuming that you are on a flat surface and you do not lift a tire. Or if you were talking front tires it would keep them both on the ground, with similar force and would aid in cornering where 1 wheel may have been getting a lot more force without the sway, the two tires would be sharing the force and would help help to provide similar traction to each wheel.

This is what I am thinking, but the way I explained it may be way off. well it probly is but it sounds good to me, and makes sense in my head...