why forged internals make more power at same psi?
Thread Starter
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From: Bloomfield Hills, MI, USA
why forged internals make more power at same psi?
call me an idiot or a noob or whatever u like but this is my question....
why is it that upgraded pistons and rods (assuming pistons are same compression as stock) tend to make much more power on the same psi as stock internals?
why is it that upgraded pistons and rods (assuming pistons are same compression as stock) tend to make much more power on the same psi as stock internals?
H-T White Ops
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From: Nor Cal
lighter than stock? Takes less power from the crank/engine to make them change stroke direction. That's about all I can think of.
::Edit::
Shitty example would be you trying to punch a punching bag REALLY fast and bring your hand back just as fast with a 15 lb. dumbell in your hand. Now do the same with a little 2 lb. one.
Ok, I'm done. Somebody else?
::Edit::
Shitty example would be you trying to punch a punching bag REALLY fast and bring your hand back just as fast with a 15 lb. dumbell in your hand. Now do the same with a little 2 lb. one.
Ok, I'm done. Somebody else?
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From: ME
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (donkiman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by donkiman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">call me an idiot or a noob or whatever u like but this is my question....
why is it that upgraded pistons and rods (assuming pistons are same compression as stock) tend to make much more power on the same psi as stock internals?</TD></TR></TABLE>
what gives you that impression?
why is it that upgraded pistons and rods (assuming pistons are same compression as stock) tend to make much more power on the same psi as stock internals?</TD></TR></TABLE>
what gives you that impression?
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From: Margaritaville
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (donkiman)
Like IslandSi said forged internals are usually lighter. It also may be that an older motor with stock internals may have been loosing some compression, then when you put in forged internals with new piston rings, it's like having a new motor with more compression.
H-T White Ops
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From: Nor Cal
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (racinskittle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racinskittle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The main idea usually is that you can boost more w/ stronger internals. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Your title suits you. Look at the original post.
Your title suits you. Look at the original post.
Unceasing Measure
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Columbus Ohio
Better heat dispersion, less rotational mass, new rings and seals and (if you're smart) bearings for cleaner operation. I don't know why you think it translates to "lots more" power, but it definately helps out a bit.
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Honda-Tech Member
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From: ashEVILle, NC, USSR
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (donkiman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by donkiman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">call me an idiot or a noob or whatever u like but this is my question....</TD></TR></TABLE>
How about Stunna?
Stunna,
People who fork out one point nine million dollars on some built badass setup usually spend more on having their car tuned. They get obsessive about not wasting their money by blowing up the new ultra$$$ engine, and it shows.
Sadly, a lot of the built engines I see could have made the same power off of stock engines just as reliably. They, much like you, lack perspective... hope I've provided some.
How about Stunna?
Stunna,
People who fork out one point nine million dollars on some built badass setup usually spend more on having their car tuned. They get obsessive about not wasting their money by blowing up the new ultra$$$ engine, and it shows.
Sadly, a lot of the built engines I see could have made the same power off of stock engines just as reliably. They, much like you, lack perspective... hope I've provided some.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (IslandSi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Your title suits you. Look at the original post.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, but the original post doesn't make a bit of sense. If you build up a motor, you're going to drop the compression (usually) which will result in less power (At same boost). Even at the same compression you're going to be VERY close to the same power.
Your title suits you. Look at the original post.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, but the original post doesn't make a bit of sense. If you build up a motor, you're going to drop the compression (usually) which will result in less power (At same boost). Even at the same compression you're going to be VERY close to the same power.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: ME
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (J. Davis)
I'm pretty sure my eagle rods are way heavier than my stock ones which would = less ponies. My new motor will make power beyond the levels supported by stock Z6 rods, therefore J Davis will not be able to make up a name for me. ha.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (J. Davis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about Stunna?
Stunna,
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hahahaha
Stunna,
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hahahaha
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 1
From: in the woods, NC, USA
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (J. Davis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How about Stunna?
Stunna,
People who fork out one point nine million dollars on some built badass setup usually spend more on having their car tuned. They get obsessive about not wasting their money by blowing up the new ultra$$$ engine, and it shows.
Sadly, a lot of the built engines I see could have made the same power off of stock engines just as reliably. They, much like you, lack perspective... hope I've provided some.</TD></TR></TABLE>
what a pen0s...
How about Stunna?
Stunna,
People who fork out one point nine million dollars on some built badass setup usually spend more on having their car tuned. They get obsessive about not wasting their money by blowing up the new ultra$$$ engine, and it shows.
Sadly, a lot of the built engines I see could have made the same power off of stock engines just as reliably. They, much like you, lack perspective... hope I've provided some.</TD></TR></TABLE>
what a pen0s...
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,417
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From: ashEVILle, NC, USSR
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (mildly interesting)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mildly interesting »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
what a pen0s... </TD></TR></TABLE>
I say, better a pen0s than a Lane Crouse any day!
what a pen0s...
</TD></TR></TABLE>I say, better a pen0s than a Lane Crouse any day!
keep your powder dry 
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From: USA
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (IslandSi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Your title suits you. Look at the original post.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good call, but im just stating the obvious. Which it really is. Why would it make more power? Besides rotational mass, there's very little reason.
PS, I hate my title. It's burned me sooooo many ****** times
Your title suits you. Look at the original post.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good call, but im just stating the obvious. Which it really is. Why would it make more power? Besides rotational mass, there's very little reason.
PS, I hate my title. It's burned me sooooo many ****** times
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From: Milwaukee, WI
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (racinskittle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racinskittle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Good call, but im just stating the obvious. Which it really is. Why would it make more power? Besides rotational mass, there's very little reason.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
1) I hope you guys are balancing your rotational assembly after bolting in lighter components.
2) The only way I can think of making more power with forged internals with the same boost pressure is a more aggressive ignition timing. Otherwise, with all factors being the same, there should be little to no gain just by switching.
Good call, but im just stating the obvious. Which it really is. Why would it make more power? Besides rotational mass, there's very little reason.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
1) I hope you guys are balancing your rotational assembly after bolting in lighter components.
2) The only way I can think of making more power with forged internals with the same boost pressure is a more aggressive ignition timing. Otherwise, with all factors being the same, there should be little to no gain just by switching.
H-T White Ops
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Nor Cal
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (racinskittle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racinskittle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why would it make more power? Besides rotational mass, there's very little reason. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Which was exactly the point of my first post.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Which was exactly the point of my first post.
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From: USA
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (Finest)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Finest »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
2) The only way I can think of making more power with forged internals with the same boost pressure is a more aggressive ignition timing. Otherwise, with all factors being the same, there should be little to no gain just by switching. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Right, but i'd just run more boost
2) The only way I can think of making more power with forged internals with the same boost pressure is a more aggressive ignition timing. Otherwise, with all factors being the same, there should be little to no gain just by switching. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Right, but i'd just run more boost
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From: Margaritaville
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (Bailhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm pretty sure my eagle rods are way heavier than my stock ones which would = less ponies. My new motor will make power beyond the levels supported by stock Z6 rods, therefore J Davis will not be able to make up a name for me. ha.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You sure about that? I think the Eagles are lighter.
You sure about that? I think the Eagles are lighter.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Bloomfield Hills, MI, USA
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (J. Davis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How about Stunna?
Stunna,
People who fork out one point nine million dollars on some built badass setup usually spend more on having their car tuned. They get obsessive about not wasting their money by blowing up the new ultra$$$ engine, and it shows.
Sadly, a lot of the built engines I see could have made the same power off of stock engines just as reliably. They, much like you, lack perspective... hope I've provided some.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont know what your trying to say here. my car has been tuned by a professional and i see reliable power. this is completely irrelevant to my question. let me rephras and to the people who wont stya on topic. i.e.- "well when u switch internals you usually lower the compression so you should make less power thats why u add more boost" i know this let me give an example. my b18c1 block has 20,000 miles on it. i saw 290whp at 9psi on 93 gas and 11.4-11.8 a/f. using standard t3/to4e that comes in a max rev kit. a guy with the same turbo made 340whp on 10 psi, same gas, same turbo but forged pistons(dont know compression but ill got with u all and say it was lower than 10:1). i was just curious why this happens.
p.s thank you for the rational mass response and weight issue. I read this forum every day so i dont need to hear the dumb *** general responses, iv read, iv seen i know, im looking for somthing technical that i dont know. so thanks alot to the poeple staying on topic.
How about Stunna?
Stunna,
People who fork out one point nine million dollars on some built badass setup usually spend more on having their car tuned. They get obsessive about not wasting their money by blowing up the new ultra$$$ engine, and it shows.
Sadly, a lot of the built engines I see could have made the same power off of stock engines just as reliably. They, much like you, lack perspective... hope I've provided some.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont know what your trying to say here. my car has been tuned by a professional and i see reliable power. this is completely irrelevant to my question. let me rephras and to the people who wont stya on topic. i.e.- "well when u switch internals you usually lower the compression so you should make less power thats why u add more boost" i know this let me give an example. my b18c1 block has 20,000 miles on it. i saw 290whp at 9psi on 93 gas and 11.4-11.8 a/f. using standard t3/to4e that comes in a max rev kit. a guy with the same turbo made 340whp on 10 psi, same gas, same turbo but forged pistons(dont know compression but ill got with u all and say it was lower than 10:1). i was just curious why this happens.
p.s thank you for the rational mass response and weight issue. I read this forum every day so i dont need to hear the dumb *** general responses, iv read, iv seen i know, im looking for somthing technical that i dont know. so thanks alot to the poeple staying on topic.
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From: NYC bitchessss
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (donkiman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by donkiman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i saw 290whp at 9psi on 93 gas and 11.4-11.8 a/f. using standard t3/to4e that comes in a max rev kit. a guy with the same turbo made 340whp on 10 psi, same gas, same turbo but forged pistons(dont know compression but ill got with u all and say it was lower than 10:1). i was just curious why this happens.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can't compare two different motors. EVERY car and motor is different, even if the setups are identical. You SHOULD make the same power on forged internals, unless there was something wrong with the other motor setup, like blowby or something along those lines. Also, the ring gap has something to do with the sealing of the pistons.
Maybe the new internals are sealing better, yielding more power.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can't compare two different motors. EVERY car and motor is different, even if the setups are identical. You SHOULD make the same power on forged internals, unless there was something wrong with the other motor setup, like blowby or something along those lines. Also, the ring gap has something to do with the sealing of the pistons.
Maybe the new internals are sealing better, yielding more power.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Planet BOOOST
Re: why forged internals make more power at same psi? (m R g S r)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by m R g S r »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You can't compare two different motors. EVERY car and motor is different, even if the setups are identical. You SHOULD make the same power on forged internals, unless there was something wrong with the other motor setup, like blowby or something along those lines. Also, the ring gap has something to do with the sealing of the pistons.
Maybe the new internals are sealing better, yielding more power.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Precisely. I thought for a second there he was referring to the same motor in the same car/setup. I guess his question has just been thrown out of the window. Even if the comparison is between identical cars with identical motor and setup and with the same tuning, it may not neccessarily yield the same results. There are just too many factors at play here. Just common sense stuff I guess.
You can't compare two different motors. EVERY car and motor is different, even if the setups are identical. You SHOULD make the same power on forged internals, unless there was something wrong with the other motor setup, like blowby or something along those lines. Also, the ring gap has something to do with the sealing of the pistons.
Maybe the new internals are sealing better, yielding more power.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Precisely. I thought for a second there he was referring to the same motor in the same car/setup. I guess his question has just been thrown out of the window. Even if the comparison is between identical cars with identical motor and setup and with the same tuning, it may not neccessarily yield the same results. There are just too many factors at play here. Just common sense stuff I guess.