kraquepype

Hi there,

I've been experencing this for a while now but wanted to know if it was common. Just looking for some input.

My car, when going over a sudden bump or irregular surface (train crossing for example) feels very harsh. It feels like someone taking a hammer to the car, everything bumps and just feels very rough overall. The same bumps I can take in any other car, and they don't have a problem. My S2000 with a much stiffer ride doesn't encounter the same hammering or harshness, so I feel like something is wrong.

Koni Orange STR.T shocks, Tein STech springs, ST swaybars. I thought the front sway was hitting but I adjusted the endlinks. I'm going to get it in the air again once its warmer to do some other work and look around, but this has been going on for a long time.

scelestus

What kind of bushings, and how much has the car been lowered?

Tyson

who did the spring/shock installation?

btw, the front ST swaybar is ridiculous, unneeded, and makes your car handle worse.

have you checked the condition of your steering rack? particularly the passenger side. thats where the rack end bushing is (white plastic piece). typically wears out quickly, if it hasnt been addressed it needs to be.

CRX is also a very old chassis in comparison to the S2000, engineered totally differently, and in this context the chassis stiffness isnt as good on the CRX. a stiffer chassis actually is good for ride smoothness, less flexing and structure feeling loose, lets the suspension do all the work its supposed to. so the chassis feel is going to be totally different. ive owned both. and in general newer cars are just better chassis because design and manufacturing has gotten better.

having said all that, my crx that was well taken care of, not lowered and on illuminas with some modest swaybars, rode like a stock car. not a new car, but much nicer than a bunch of other crx's ive been in. i received a lot of compliments from other crx owners who complained how rough theirs was after riding in mine. it just takes maintenance and not adding dumb parts.

Creator

iTrader: (1)

How long have those shocks been on the car. It doesn't look like your car is slammed (in your pictures), but I would say most likely they're worn out, as is all of your bump stops. Bump stops wear out shortly after the shocks do and then you get the metal on metal (hammer) effect, essentially the shock completely bottoming out. If you don't think it's that then you could try a set of extended top hats, ebay for cheapys and ground control for bling bling factor.

2x0

It's an '89, I'd say wear, tear, and old age are the culprits here. Time to go through everything from wheel bearings, ball joints, bushings, steering rack, tie rods, and so on and so forth until you find what is causing the issue. More than likely it could be multiple things adding up to a rough ride.

When I got my '91, almost none of those things I mentioned had been addressed in at least a decade. It's taken me two years to go through and replace almost all of it, most recently I did new front LCA's, a new steering rack and all new tie rods. It's made the most difference in ride quality so far. Replacing bushings can do wonders, and it really doesn't cost much.

kraquepype

I can give more detail, lots has been replaced over the last few years... pretty much everything honestly. Car rides and handles well except for the harshness I get over sudden bumps.

One thing I didn't replace are the shock mount bushings. The bump stops I'm using are from a rubber Kong dog chew toy, I saw a write up on it a while ago and thought it was a good idea.

I installed everything including the shocks / springs. Everything was put together correctly following FSM. All bushings were pre-loaded before torquing down.

Tein STech, Koni Orange
Hardrace front and rear control arms w/ rubber bushings
Hardrace trailing arm bushing
New compensator arms
New wheel bearings / ball joints
Adjustable Upper control arms (hard race up front, SPC rear)
Steering rack replaced, tie rods
Axles
Innovative Pro Traction bar
ST Sway bars
Innovative steel mounts

Thanks for the details on your car. My shock / spring combo isn't particularly aggressive so I thought it would be able to handle bumps better... it was worse on the H&R sports I had before the Teins. You are right, it is an old chassis and prone to be harsher compared to anything modern. At this point I like how it handles but wish it didn't feel like I was running over a brick when I hit a bump...

Tyson

how thick did you leave the kong bump stop?

have you gone underneath the car and assessed for any play? i'd recheck that steering rack.

and yeah man, you got hard rubber bushings... it only makes the car harsher.

which shock mount bushings are you talking about? in the top hat or in the control arm? the ones in the top hat arent too important.

fwiw with my suspension it did not feel like anything hitting a brick. are you feeling it thru the steering wheel or at your feet?

2x0

I would suspect that the kong bump stops are at least part of the issue. The OEM stops are more of a hard foam rubber, and even aftermarket ones are fairly pliable. You could have an issue of too long and too rigid of bump stops.

And yeah the hard rubber bushings in the aftermarket control arms will add quite a bit of "stiffness" to the feel.

kraquepype

The bump stops I used were about a 1.5 inch long; They seemed strong and pliable so it didn't concern me. Agreed on the bushings.

Top-hat bushings; I wasn't worried about them when I re-assembled my shocks since they weren't dry or cracked.

I'll be putting the car up and checking things out this or next weekend if its nice.

Mostly feel it through the car, like that abrupt harsh thunk you get when hitting a big pothole, it shakes everything in the car.

Tyson

too long. should be no more than .75", .5" is fine. youre just trying to prevent the shock from bottoming out. compress the shock with the top hat but without springs by hand. see how much travel you actually get. you just need to fill the difference and some reasonable amount of compression to stop it from hitting internally.

kraquepype

Thanks, I'm not completely sure of the length I cut but its certainly larger than .75; I'll take a look at it when I get it apart again.

Didn't see this comment earlier; I'm thinking of trying the stock front sway again. I was worried though that an uprated rear with stock front would make it unpredictable to drive?

Creator

iTrader: (1)

I'm not really sure why I'm posting this, it seems my first post was completely ignored.
Try some extended top hats! I used to love the way my mostly stock lowered on h&r springs was nice and cushy with some top hats. On a lowered car this moves the shock back/closer to regular working area.
or completely ignore what I say
I agree w/ Tyson on the front sway, take that off.

Tyson

if indeed the sole issue is that he's bottoming out his improvised bump stops, using top hats would be effectively the same as just shortening them.

all top hats do is shift the piston travel range, which really just shortens the full droop travel.

kraquepype

First off, I didn't ignore your post... I put more detail on my setup in response to yours and other replies.

Second, I didn't see the extended top hat suggestion, so I apologize. I will look into it, hadn't really thought about using them before.

I put the front sway on before understanding how it would affect the car, after researching more I agree and will see how it feels without it.

2x0

Won't the extended top hats just allow the upper control arm to smash into the shock tower?

Creator

iTrader: (1)

Well he never said anything about bottoming out, I said that.
I can't say on the bump stop issue, although just from what little I know and what I've seen you(tyson) post about suspension in the past I'm betting your right about that.
Instead of forcing the gas shock to work in top 3/5ths of travel, where it is stiffest in full compression, why not move it to work in the middle of it's 3/5ths travel where it is going to be softer....to put it simply.

Tyson

regarding your "middle to 3/5ths travel" comment, gas shocks dont change force over the position of stroke. thats not how a shock works.

Tyson

wont affect that at all.

extended top hats dont change ride height.

Creator

iTrader: (1)

I guess I have more to learn. Thanks Tyson

2x0

I know they don't, but say if normally the bump stop is positioned so the car would bottom out on it first, then with the extended top hat you've raised the bump stop and allowed the suspension to travel further in relation to the chassis. The next thing to bottom out would be UCA vs shock tower.

Tyson

well fine, top hats would open up the travel of the suspension by not restricting the travel using extra long bump stops and causing a harsh ride.

normal travel of the suspension should not lead to crashing the top of the control arm into the body.

top hats also lead to the shock body crashing into the top hat too given the right circumstance.

yes of course if youre low, youre going to inevitably do that, or be riding on bumpstops leading to a harsh ride.

thats not the problem of the suspension, thats a problem of bad parts and bad modifications.

and for what its worth, id rather bottom out the UCA than destroy my shocks internally.

i dont get what your concrern is.

kraquepype

You all have been really helpful, thank you.

When I get to work on it, going to inspect the bump stops and remove the front swaybar. Might get some extended hats as well if it makes sense.

EE2bitsk

kraquepype

Update, did some work to the car. Did not get to inspect the bumpstops, but did install my original front swaybar. Thats made a bitdifference, I don't get near as bad a jolt when going over bumps or rough surfaces now. I also think the larger bar was hitting the subframe.

ST Rear sway is on, I get much better turn in when cornering. It has taken some getting used to but it feels pretty good.

Should have removed it long ago, thanks everyone! I feel pretty dumb for not paying attention to the swaybar discussions, but I'm glad its helped.

Also looked into extended hats, everything I found indicated they were for coilovers and wouldn't do much for lowering springs. Any thoughts on that, or anyone running top-hats without coilovers?

Tyson

GC top hats work best with stock shocks, not coilovers. ideally the shock fits inside the top hat to make the most use of the extra height. a "coilover" is going to be a fatter body, wont ever fit inside, and youll overall loose usable travel.

they come with coilovers because they didnt make the piston the correct length for the chassis and need it to protect it from bottoming out.