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Hello everyone, First let me say that I really appreciate all the experts out there that are willing to share their knowledge and time. Second, I would not be posting this thread about a well documented P0011 fault if I had not tried everything I can think off and read of to fix it. So here are the facts.....
2005 Honda CR-V LX AWD A/T ~149,000 miles
Problem: The following codes have been seen when the MIL light comes on.
Note: VSA lights (2) come on with MIL light
P0011 - "Camshaft Position A - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1)". First occurrence of this code was a month ago (Aug 2018)
P1009 – “Variable Valve Timing Control Advance Malfunction” have not seen this code since changing the timing chain and related parts e.g. guides, tensioner, actuator (in Sept 2018). First occurrence of code P1009 was a year ago (7/2017), changed oil and filter and code did not come back for a year.
Steps taken recently to try and fix codes:
1. Changed oil and filter with 5W-20 full synthetic and Wix filter. Oil was less than 3000 miles old but replaced anyway.
2. Cleaned VTC solenoid/valve and bench tested with 12vdc (did not test with Pulses). Seemed to work just fine.
3. Cleaned VTC screen, was not very dirty.
4. Replaced VTC solenoid/valve with new.
5. Replaced Timing chain, guides and tensioner as marks were a little off but not a full tooth, and chain had 140K on it so due for a change. Also replaced with new OEM the VCT actuator on the end of the intake cam (bolted it on in the unlocked position, then locked and installed the chain).
6. Disassembled, cleaned and inspected VTEC solenoid and screen. Was not very dirty.
7. Honda updated the computer code version per Service Bulletin 08-089 “The PCM misinterprets inputs as a fault in the VTC system” – P1009 has not come back since this update
In this system, the ECU receives signals from the:
MAP-- Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor or is it Mass Air Pressure
MAF -- Mass Air Flow Sensor
and the engine coolant temperature sensor
and uses the information to adjust its output signal to an oil control valve.
P0011 indicates ‘too advanced’ or system performance (not sure what system performance means in this context), so assuming oil pressure is not an issue since oil pressure is what moves VTC actuator to a too advanced position, however, dealers write up after running VCT test says “VTC solenoid sticking or clogged, Oil Line Leaks, Clogged or has trapped air”. The dealer write up does not seem to correlate with a 'too advanced position'.
I do not have a 'scanner' that can command the Computer to advance or retard the VCT and measure the intake cam position with relation to the crankshaft so I am thinking of using a cheap oscilloscope (or use my laptop audio input as input to a oscilloscope application) to watch the intake cam shaft sensor signals and then apply and remove voltage to the VCT solenoid to see how the VCT reacts to commands and intake cam phasing.
The car starts and idles fine, also seems to run good on the road, there may be a slight surge every once in a while and I cant tell if it has the power is should have since it's been a while since the P0011 fault started.
Well, that's the facts as I know them today. If anyone has ideas please let me know. Thanks
Just bumping this thread as there have been no replies. I plan to put a O-scope on it tonight and control the VCT manually via 12vdc. I sure would like some input from all the experts out there.
Another bump to this thread, also I did get my O-Scope hooked up to it and can see the Cam timing change in relationship to the Crank timing, but I could not determine if the timing was on or off from where it should be. I also checked and cleaned the G101 ground (between the 2nd and 3rd fuel injector) since this is the ground for the Cam and Crank sensors, but this did not fix the issue.
All help on this is appreciated as I have run out of ideas.
Hello UK-Kev, yes I have replaced the VTC solenoid with a new one, and also replaced the VTEC solenoid with a used one. No difference in codes. I guess it's possible the replacements (new and used) are also bad, but bench tests look good on both.. Yesterday I did get around to checking the oil pressure, and to my happy surprise it was great, 40 PSI at warm idle and 80 PSI at 2500 rpm. The reason I checked the oil pressure was based on my hypothesis that it may take more oil pressure to retard the timing once it has been advanced via the timing actuator (gear on end of intake cam). I am beginning to think the problem could be the intake cam position sensor or maybe the computer itself. The best case scenario for me would be to find someone local (not a dealer) who has a diagnostic device that can actually see the cam advance and retard angles vs the crank, having this type of device would let me run some scenarios e.g. acceleration, load, etc. to determine when and maybe why this car is showing P0011. Sometimes you have drive for 15-20 minutes before it shows up, other times it shows up right away.
Thanks in advance to any insight to this annoying problem.
Hello anyone that reads this thread. So i was messing around with the original intake timing solenoid to figure out which ports did the advance vs the retard. In order to see into the solenoid ports I had to remove the little fine screens wrapped around each port. After removing the little screens I could see into the solenoid ports and I compared them to a picture I found in a TSB and everything looked good when energized and de-energized. So I decided to clean it again without the screens and put it back in the car just to see what would happen, well to my surprise the car ran great and the trouble code has not returned in over a week plus. So, now I wonder what the problem really was: 1) dirt in the solenoid 2) not enough oil flow and by removing the little screens more oil can now flow (btw the little screens were perfectly clean before I removed them), 3) something else that I have not thought of?
I was going to ask you about the oil strainers – Okay moving forward have you checked your oil pressure? Also I think you should be using a 0W / 30 oil not 5w/20 Please check your user handbook, or speak to local Honda agent regarding oil specification.
Hello UK-Key, the owners manual and the filler cap say 5w-30, why do you recommend 0w-30? Btw the strainers have been cleaned twice, very little dirt and did not fix the check engine light P0011.
What part of the world are you operating your crv? Or better still what’s your average ambient temperature?
Hi, I live in Minnesota USA. Ambient temps in summer are around 80f and in the winter around 20f but our temp extremes can range from -25f winter to 100f summer.
I have a 2005 Honda CR-V with the exact same issue. I have already replaced VTC solenoid/valve. I even had the cams adjusted. Still getting the same error lights as you are.
The car drives great, I am not noticing any mechanical issues. I had to get a repair waiver for emissions last year and don't want to go through that again. If you ever figure out this issue then please let me know.
I will say that when I do clear the error codes it will run rough for about 50 miles but then back to the same lights and it runs fine then.
Yes I finally figured out what was going on and am embarrassed to tell you that it was still the intake cam solenoid valve (original when I got the car was a aftermarket and it threw the code and the aftermarket replacement I put in also threw the code. How I finally figured it out was by removing the little screens around the ports of solenoid valve and running it this way. I removed the screens just to get a better look into the solenoid and understand better how it worked, but it fixed the problem, the light never came back but there was some jerking of the engine, so I ordered a used Honda solenoid from eBay for about $35 and it now runs smooth and the light has never returned. I did notice that the Honda solenoid screens seemed more coarse (aftermarket were finer screens), and the Honda solenoid had additional black plastic rings (as part of the screens that may prevent oil blow by from one port to the next. I hope this help you, I am not sure what I could have tried next.
I ordered a used but genuine Honda 15830-RBB-003 from ebay.
Joe,
Thank you so much for replying. I called my wife and told her that you found a solution for your car and i was gonna try the same thing. She was so happy - she loves that CRV. I am ordering my part today and hopefully i can report back to you with the same success as soon as i can.
Thanks again and keep your fingers crossed for us,
Ray
Ray, I wish you all the best of success and luck, let me know how it goes, I will keep my fingers crossed for you.
Joe
Joel,
I can not thank you enough for your help. I went to change the part and discovered the existing part was broke. I dug it out and put in the new one, reset the error code and it has been perfect for two days now. Thanks again for replying and saving us so much wasted money.
I must thank both of you guys for the comments and hard work done by the one that figured it out.So my element dx if I ever have the same problem
I know what to do.I as well love our Element so much as well fun car to drive both in town or highway.
I learn so much from this site so if our does give us problems I know where to look for ideas how to fix.
But thanks so much for posting after you took the time to come up with the repair that was needed Scott
Yes I finally figured out what was going on and am embarrassed to tell you that it was still the intake cam solenoid valve (original when I got the car was a aftermarket and it threw the code and the aftermarket replacement I put in also threw the code. How I finally figured it out was by removing the little screens around the ports of solenoid valve and running it this way. I removed the screens just to get a better look into the solenoid and understand better how it worked, but it fixed the problem, the light never came back but there was some jerking of the engine, so I ordered a used Honda solenoid from eBay for about $35 and it now runs smooth and the light has never returned. I did notice that the Honda solenoid screens seemed more coarse (aftermarket were finer screens), and the Honda solenoid had additional black plastic rings (as part of the screens that may prevent oil blow by from one port to the next. I hope this help you, I am not sure what I could have tried next.
I ordered a used but genuine Honda 15830-RBB-003 from ebay.
Joe
Can I ask why you chose that part # for the VTC solenoid, I searched my car it is FWD, but it said both drive trains should use this part #15830-PNC-003. I searched both cars here as well 2002 CRV VTC solenoid. I am asking because ebay said the part #RBB you referenced was incorrect for my 2002 CRV. Are they so similar you can use either?
Thank you this thread is helping me diagnose P0011. I changed out the intake cam sensor to no avail. The VTC solenoid screen was broken. Glad I checked on it.
10-11-2018, 03:10 PM
P0011 Fault Code
Re: P0011 Fault Code
