Well, if I did destroy the P06 I'm working on to chip, I will start scratching through the PCB.

I kind of doubt they are multi layer though. It's a pretty expensive process and seems to be reserved for the most complicated and small form factor applications. Things like cell phones, laptop computers and probably high end desktop computers. Our ECU's are early OBD ECU's. I do not believe the complexity is high enough to require multi layer to fit the ECU size form factor we see. I'm not even confident it's warranted on current day ECU's which have a lot more sensors and such but very well might be.

I suspect the 5th and 6th gen are not nearly complicated enough to warrant that kind of process. Being we don't even see surface mount components anywhere in the 5th gen (not sure on the 6th gen), I feel safe in assuming it's single layer PCB's used throughout the cars.

 

Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it!
And thank you for laying out the differences btwn chipping and engine mgmt.
Since I have the correct ECU for my engine/chassis, I think I might go with their re-cap service.
Good stuff! Wishing you success!
And yes, I know what it means to feel like you shouldn't be working on your own machine...

 

Work is so slow at the moment that I was given the day off. Today I pulled the intake manifold after I had finished up with the fuel rail and tested to be sure all was okay.

I was easily able to grab the piece of tube out of the valve space of the head. There was no way I was getting that piece through the injector hole. Also I think it was too big to possibly be sucked into the valve seat area but I still believe it would interfere with the air/fuel flow through that valve causing weird combustion.

Also after running it for a moment to listen to the motor and sniff for fuel while it idled really high at nearly 2500 rpm. I restarted it and it started idle surging. I have not bleed the coolant and will need to go through that process once I get the manifold squared away.





I broke the PCV valve trying to pull it out. The tube from the manifold to the breather box was as hard as plastic. Pulled the breather box so I could break out the tubing and even the o-ring on the breather box was nearly plasticized. So more seals needed before I can put her back together and begin the running of her. I have an intake manifold gasket of which the old one was extremely brittle. I already have the tube from breather box to bottom of manifold, but need the breather box parts, grommet, tube connector (similar to brake booster vacuum hose pass through plastic connector on the firewall) and the o-ring. This motor has been neglected of every rubber part it seems and I've had to replace almost every single seal. Think I'm going to do the vtec and fitv seals while I'm at it. Broke out one of my B7 FITV's if I can't seem to get this one cleaned up.

Then I get to play with everything idle methinks. This adventure has finally been teaching me all the things I have always gotten lucky on and skipped as it hasn't been a problem for me.

 

I know it got buried and you probably don't care but it's just flat out false that an automatic ecu won't start and run an engine with a manual transmission.

 

It should start the car but you have to give it the neutral signal, or park. Which ever is easiest.

 

That's only necessary when swapping an automatic chassis to manual due to the automatic wiring harness.

 

This guy in this post tried an auto P06 in his manual D15B7 and it tried to start but wouldn't run. As soon as he converted it to manual, it fired right up and his issue was resolved.

That where I changed my tune about the non converted auto ECU not wanting to run the car without some kind of tranny input.

But then I also skipped his next post where he got the car running prior to converting.... FML Thnks for having me revisit. My original understanding still stands.

 

I learned something else new tonight. The VX uses two PCV valves while all other trims use 1. The #2 part Joint connector from the breather box grommet to the lower PCV valve tube is a hollow tube on all but the vtec-e motor. On the vtec-e motor it's another pcv valve.

If I hadn't had to break all of that out of the D16Z6 breather, I likely would not have discovered this trying to rob that joint connector from the VX motor on the stand. Honda has the hollow tube joint connector on back order until the end of March at the earliest.

I wonder why the VX needs a double valve?

 

^^ Wait, what? Pics pleeeeze!

 

Confirmed on Hondapartsnow.com.

Notice part #2 is the connector, notice it's missing in the list under the VX model, notice different part #16 isolated off as it's for specific models only. It's in the list as PCV Valve assembly, the second PCV Valve assembly in the list. The first one #6 is in the list too on the VX parts list.








Here is pics from my VX engine on the stand.






After scratching my head downstairs I came up and looked it up on hondaparts now and said hmmm, imagine that....

Have no clue why it needs two valves but it's there.

Oh and the part in my hand says japan and has a honda part number on it. The first 5 and the last 3 I could see match HPN. Need to clean up the dirt to confirm the same P2M is on the part or if it's a preceding number.

 

Hm, interesting.

 

The only thing that came to mind today when I thought about it, is maybe the VX needs a touch more crank case pressure for it's lean burn setup. This setup, the crank case pressure now has to push past 2 springs and I did note the top PCV valve is the same part number for all trims. So it's not like it's a weaker spring PCV up top. The other thought that just occurred to me is maybe it has to do with the EGR system. The VX is the only trim that has an EGR valve.

I've actually thought about maybe adding the breather PCV to all 92-95 to see if it makes any difference on fuel economy.

Fram FV378 is the breather pcv if anyone else is interested and doesn't want to pay the higher OEM honda price for the pcv valve (23 bucks?). The upper PCV is Fram FV324.

 

Today I got the breather box parts from Honda and put the intake manifold back together. New o-ring, new grommet, old joint connector, new under manifold PCV tube and new PCV valve.

Put battery back and and fired her up. She fired instantly. With that piece of tube in #1 she was struggling to fire until she cranked a bit and the other cylinders got the motor going. Today, no hesitation at all.

Next steps is to get the proper ECU in her and then burp the coolant. With the P06 she starts up and idles high, probably from the air in the cooling system. I don't want to burp her with a P06. Probably not lean enough to be an issue at idle, but really, not sure I want to take the gamble being I have zero data on the idling fuel characteristics between the D15B7 and the D16Z6. Would 20 minutes or more of idling on a B7 map cause damage.... I'm no expert in that matter and struggle to navigate PGMFI.org to be able to gleen such info.

Sooo, now it's back to the ECU, the chore I've been putting off.

 

I just got done with the ECU. I'm nervous so am doing the post before I even test it, being I'd likely be too frustrated to do the post in the event it fails. So, post first. Old *** laptop rebooted on me 15 minutes into the first post attempt. So quickly uploading all photo's and will flesh out the post after, just in case damn thing tries to reboot again on me.


Here is my messy hobby station and my soldering gear, including my reading glasses up on the cedar shelf I built.



Here is the backside of the board. I haven't re-coated the board or components with conformal coating yet. Going to test it first, then if all is well, do a coating over everything I did.



Here is one of the areas I messed up the PCB soldering pads. I had to build a trace using a jumper leg, tested it and all of it tested out positive with connection.



Here is where the smaller IC 74HC373 was installed. You can see some of the solder followed some of the traces a touch. I didn't bother trying to clean it up as it's the trace to the respective pin and won't affect anything as long as it stayed to it's trace. As far as I could see under magnification, it did without issue.



Here is another area I messed up the pads. As well, that shiny "blob" covering two traces concerned me when I saw it in the photo. I just pulled the back off the ECU and inspected it, I dug it down into the PCB between the two traces and could not see if it was solder or PCB etc, added some conformal coating and it cleared up, no short like it looks like in the picture. There is some copper trace exposed though so the coating will help protect that, now that the green layer is gone.



Here is the back side of where almost all the capacitors I replaced are. They turned out pretty decent. Then again I finally had the liquid rosin flux and low temp allow by then so I didn't fight the board like I was prior. My impatience getting the better of me.




Here is the front side of Jumper #10 and the vtec components I added. I will have to ask the pros in the ECU/Tuning section if this jumper is what enables the vtec circuitry. The documentation only states "snipping" jumper #1 to revert the ECU to factory but the P06 doesn't normally have vtec. I'm wondering if this jumper does for vtec as jumper #1 does for the chipping circuitry. I added a true jumper which was a little challenging as the spacing is set for a 3 pin standard not the normal computer 2 pin jumper. I removed the middle pin to facilitate and then made the custom jumper cap.



Here is the front side of Jumper #1 (to enable/disable chipping circuitry), small IC chip 74HC373), the Aries ZIF socket that I soldered directly to the PCB (should have soldered machined dip socket then pushed the zif into the dip) and the R54 1K resistor that was missing from my chip kit. I robbed the 1K resistor from the automatic transmission gauge light display board. Since I had already added the 3 pin sized Jumper #1 I had to play some games with the larger sized 1K resistor. I soldered one leg of the resistor into the PCB then took one of my jumper legs, soldered it into the other side, then soldered the other leg of the resistor to the jumper leg. Made it fit and didn't have to fight all the components to do it. The back side is also where one set of messed up pads are if I recall.



I noticed these ECUs have either a transistor or a switch pack that they use a pressure clamp to the case for heat dissipation. I decided to use some of my Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste when putting this part back together. The paste will help the heat transfer efficiency significantly. I still had this from my PC building days and at the time it was some of the best thermal paste there was. Supposedly way better than zinc oxide thermal paste.



The 4 pin data log header. There wasn't any information on which way it should be installed and Chris from Xenocron eventually indicated (I didn't know how to ask the right questions I suppose) that it would depend on the data logging application. So If I have to repin the data logging hardware if I ever use it, so be it.



All the fresh shiny new capacitors.... yay!




The P28 (D16Z6) stock basemap SST chip installed into the shiny new zif socket.




This is for my personal documentation. R18 is a 4.7K ohm resistor and R17 is a 2.7K ohm resistor. These are for the automatic transmission OBD1 civic ECU's.


I plan on using these really small Double Pole, Double Throw (DPDT) switches to convert automatic ECU's into dual purpose ECU's (manual and automatic). That screw next to the package of switches is one of the ECU case cover screws for reference. With the DPDT switch I can put the resistors on one side of the switch and the R18 jumper wire on the other side. It's a two position switch, one side will be automatic ECU, the other side will be manual ECU. Solder one side for automatic, the other for manual, flip the switch as needed.




As can be seen from the photo's I did mangle the **** out of this ECU but I still think it should work okay. If not, then I can scavenge all the new components and do a better job on the next ECU, I have 2 other automatic P06 ecu's but.... I don't think they are the 11F0 boards. I will also have to get another Aries Zif socket of which run about 25 bucks up here for me to get at the moment.... I'm hoping I didn't trash this board beyond use......

Oh the "scratchyness" seen all over the back of the board, that is the conformal coating getting stringy and moving around when cleaning and scrubbing the board with 99% IPA and q-tips. I got most all the cotton off the board and that scratchy look will vanish after the conformal coating is applied. Very much like how clear coat blemishes vanish after respraying another coating of clear coat. I witnessed this on the ECU I did the auto to manual conversion on.

Bought time to go test and settle my nerves....

 

ECU was a success, no CEL's etc and started her up etc etc etc. CEL came on when I had the IACV disconnected and went away when I reconnected it.

I do have a problem I've never experienced before. I know I drained the motor completely of coolant. I did my best to refill the engine through the main head hose until all the bubbles stop coming out and the coolant would not go down any further. I assumed the coolant would seep through the head gasket and fill the block. After, I filled up the radiator and connected all the hoses. Also when I changed the water pump for a new one that I know was a working water pump, coolant came out the pump etc.

So now I was trying to bleed the coolant system, have surging idle at times which I assume is air. Kept monitoring temp gauge, radiator begins to boil over, and needle starts to climb half way, I shut her off, wait for the boiling to stop and try again. Heater is set to full hot and when I had the cap off, the coolant was surging gushing out. Literally shooting out about 3 inches then dropping then shoot, drop shoot etc. First thought is bad head gasket as I've never seen it act like that before. Pulled out my block tester and fluid has stayed blue and I've tested 3 times pulling air from the radiator through the tester. I can not seem to pull any exhaust gasses from the radiator even though it blows coolant and steam. I tested the coolant and it is on the low side for boiling point so started adding concentrate.

Here's where it's odd, the hoses to the heater core are not getting warm. When I squeeze them coolant level rises and falls in the radiator.

Do I have so much air in the system that it can't purge or cycle the coolant properly? I took the thermostat main hose off and I have coolant sitting right to the rim of the thermostat housing.

Any ideas of what might be going on? I'm really not sure where I went wrong or how to fix it. I haven't let the car overheat and I can't seem to show a bad head gasket even though that's exactly what the radiator was acting like.

Of note, the previous engine owner had been running the car without a thermostat if that is of any relevance.

 

Is it a new thermostat?

Maybe the heater core is plugged? easy enough to test

Turn the heat to hot but fan switch off.

 

TomCat39, are you running an OE thermostat ?

 

Heat to hot is part of the air purge process. I am trying to remember but I'm fairly certain I had heat when the original motor was in the car. I don't think the the core is clogged but I can't remember for sure as I only drove on the original motor for about 1 week before pulling it for knocking. However, it was cold in the mornings and I don't remember being cold on my drive to work that week. After talking with my wife, not sure how long ago that was, if it was summer, wouldn't have likely needed heat that week. Will have to pull the hoses and see if water flows through the core.

No, it's a lordco thermostat. Don't remember the brand. I didn't think the thermostat would stop the flow through the heater core though. Those two hoses connect right to the head and stayed cool.

I was thinking about pulling the thermostat out completely just to get the air out and then add it back if all ran okay. This would in theory let me set ignition timing and adjust idle etc. This would also let me test the thermostat to be sure it is operating to spec. It is brand new, but not OE.

Edit update: Just tested the heater core by clamping the hose going to the valve, pulling it off the valve, attaching another hose to the valve and connecting my garden hose to the hose. Pulled radiator cap and pressurized the core for a brief moment, coolant gushed out of the radiator. The direction of flow could only be through the heater core. I barely opened the nozzle and it started to flood my garage. Heater core appears to be fine. After putting the hose frm the head back onto the heater core flow valve, I started her up and did a quick rev test to be sure the water pump is pushing fluid. The fluid rose in the radiator and fell in the radiator in time with the quick throttle revs. Didn't come flying out and I actually had to blip the throttle decently to get the fluid to bounce to the top of the filler neck. No fluid gushed out, just the level rising and falling in time with decent amount of throttle blipping. Mild blips didn't seem to affect the level. So I increased the level of the blip until I saw movement in level.

Looks like I need to get an OEM thermostat by what JRCivic1 seems to be indicating.

 

yes the hot part is correct, but you should have the interior blower motor off.

back to the issue, I’ve seen many jobber thermostats stick until the first time they open, then fine after that. That first time is always extra hot. Try running it again and see if it opens.

 

I see what you were getting at and understand why yer mentioning it. Yeah, the blower was off and I have always kept it off for the purge process. I only kicked it on momentarily to see if the core was getting hot water from the motor. When it blew cold, I turned it off and then I was under the hood feeling around. Bottom rad hose, cold and squishy, top rad hose hot. Heater hoses, both cold. Rad cap was on loosely so nothing pressurized.I should also feel the smaller coolant hoses that goto the FITV and IACV. Those I think should be hot like the top rad hose prior to the thermostat opening.

I am probably going to yank the thermostat out and do the boiling water test.

I am also wanting to figure out the coolant flow through the system both open and closed thermostat. I've never really figured that part out so feel I'm lacking in some understanding there.

 

Man, seeing your work on the ECU convinces me that this is above my skill-set! Good work!

 

Hahhahahahhaha, I'm such an idiot...... I tested the thermostat, it's USA made and works fine. Starts opening at 78-80C is maxed at 94C. Isn't sticking open or closed. OEM seal etc.

So I look at the FSM for the coolant hoses at the thermostat housing and the heater core hoses. My dingus *** put the small loop hose on both nipples of the thermostat housing. It's supposed to go from the head to the rear thermostat nipple and the heater hose is to the front thermostat nipple. No wonder there was no movement through the heater core and the thermostat wasn't working properly etc etc etc.

See for yourself. #1 should be at #4 and #3 at #1 and #4 at #3. #2 is the only one in the correct spot...... I'm my own worst enemy.




UPDATE: after testing the thermostat and realizing my gross error pointed out above, I went downstairs and changed the hoses around trying to prevent as much coolant loss as possible. Filled her back up with coolant and did the purging procedure. Heater hoses got hot, temp gauge never moved from it's slightly less than half way and eventually the bottom rad hose got hot and I let the fan kick on 3 times, topping up radiator on the third fan run.

Shut her off after buttoning up the radiator and topping up recovery reservoir. Shorted the service connector to get my vtec codes. I for fun decided to confirm the vtec circuitry worked so I unplugged both the solenoid and the pressure switch only to get an immediate CEL on start up, turned her back off and reconnected for the CEL to go away. None the less, she gave me my codes so I reset the ECU only to discover someone had used a 10amp fuse in the backup fuse being they couldn't find a 7.5 amp. I replaced it with a 7.5 amp after the reset. Started her up with service connector shorted, solid CEL and set ignition timing. She sat there purring nicely overall.

She's idling high and she did a little surging initially on the purging, we'll see if the surging is gone or what not when I run through the idle set procedure. Ran out of time to do it tonight, but it's nice to know she isn't over heating and all timing is set for the moment etc.

Getting there.

 

Victory! Some days even a blind squirrel finds a nut...

Not saying you are a blind squirrel.
And not talking about your nuts.
Nevermind...

 

A win.

 

hey tomcat! I think you did very well with that board level repair! It's not like you were dealing with the most pristine conditions, things needed to be repaired! Ya those scratches all fill in with the conformal coating. And boom! The engine is running well.. Doesn't it feel great?! There is such a great feeling of accomplishment when you did the repairs, saved money and it's working perfectly now! love that feeling! The work looks very good. Oh and for everyone else reading.. when I was doing the board level repairs, I got a nice lighted magnifying glass on a adjustable neck from harbor freight! Got my face out of the lead-solder fumes!

Also glad to hear that the coolant by-pass hoses, etc were just in the wrong order. Hey, we've all done those bone-headed moves, scratching our heads going "what happened?!" hey welcome to being human! lol

again.. congrats! looks great