Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

 
Old 04-22-2019, 08:56 AM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

I've used a UV-resistant clear-coat on headlights and it seems to work well, but only for a year or two. Then is starts chipping off and looks worse than it did before. That's one thing I've never been able to get quite right.
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

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Old 04-23-2019, 06:33 AM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

Originally Posted by tony_2018 View Post
Good call, I'm gonna check that out! My cheap Depots on my EK are already starting to show some wear and tear, after only a year.
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

Just make sure you sand all the yellow haze off.
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:55 AM
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Yeah, it looks like 3M has put out several kits. The one I used I believe is older. I was giving it over a year ago by my neighbor and just gave it back.

I can get some Mother's UV wax and just wax my lenses monthly for now.
That kit you presented Tony is over 60 bucks up here.

https://www.amazon.ca/3M-Company-Headlight-Restorat-Kit/dp/B072FQMY3Z/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=3M+39175&qid=1556034649&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull https://www.amazon.ca/3M-Company-Headlight-Restorat-Kit/dp/B072FQMY3Z/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=3M+39175&qid=1556034649&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

Gotta love import fees and duty taxes etc.

Yesterday I popped the bitch pin, unbolted the exhaust brackets connected to the tranny, wiggled the inspection plate out, unbolted and fanagled the rear transmission mount bracket out and popped the left lower ball joint.
Tonight I'll pop and bag both axles out of the tranny, support the motor and continue unsecuring the tranny and tranny main mount to drop her to the ground gently.

Looks like front main and rear main need to be replaced. Timing belt ordered and on it's way.
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

buy the small patches and get the sand paper locally. small packs are 18 bucks.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:43 PM
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I finally dropped the transmission tonight. And I saw the pressure plate took a beating. I couldn't find a source but some metal shavings did drop to the floor. I wonder if a screw came out or maybe bearings in the throwout bearing tumbled around in the bell housing and they just replaced the throw out bearing? No clue really. I did find the clutch was just hitting the rivets on one side so it was time to replace anyway. I have a spare clutch that has lots of meat left but the flywheel that was mated to it has some issues beyond just a bad pilot bearing. So I'll attack the flywheel that was in that car with steel wool to break the glaze and put in the used clutch and pressure plate I pulled off the Z6 motor.





This is the Z6 flywheel. Seems the center ring where I tapped the pilot bearing out has deteriorated or busted when previous owner/mechanic tried knocking out the pilot bearing. I fear it may throw the balance off so I won't be using it in the VX. Instead will just rob the clutch and pressure plate from it to use with the VX flywheel.



This is the flywheel from the VX with a good pilot bearing. Just needs a de-glazing without causing a run out problem. If I used any sort of sander I fear it could induce run out and cause clutch chatter.



You might be able to see the damage of the rivets just starting to create hot spots on the VX pressure plate.



Here you can see the rivets just being hit. This is the worn out clutch from the VX.



And looks like a new rear main is in order. There is a thick sludge on the top of the bell housing so it looks like it's been throwing oil and clutch material up for some time.


I'm wondering if I can pull the seal plate without draining the oil.... I need to do an oil change so will drain it but just wondering where the oil sits when oil level is good, can the seal plate be removed without oil pouring out? Not gonna find out.

I need to relook up the transmission gear ratios. It's been so long I don't remember or have my notes on that. I want to pop the tranny into reverse and count how many input shaft revolutions it takes for one differential revolution. I want to confirm I have the VX (USDM CX) tall gear transmission. I've confirmed it's the small bearing P20/A000 case. Just need to confirm final drive.

I've also confirmed the input shaft bearing seems to be good, there is zero play in the shaft and it spins freely. I feel confident putting it back in the car with a new used clutch, and a re-greased throw out bearing.

I'm waiting for my Contitech TB223 timing belt to show up and I need to order both the front main and rear main seals. I'm hoping the oil pan gasket is fine.

Found it, putting it here for my personal reference.

Notes:
Trans code S20 on sticker (P20 stamped on housing).
All have hydraulic clutches.
All 1992-2000 trans have one of two speedo gears: EX/Si/HX use “big bore” black one and others use white one but outer diameter is the same.
IDENTIFICATION: Look at the fill plug for a circle cast into the housing.
P20-A000 = DX, CX, VX trans & P20-B000 = Si, EX trans.
To ID use gear ratio test in sixth gen next note below.

CIVIC (FIFTH GENERATION)          
Year & trim levelOEM engine codeVSS / Speedo gearOEM wheel / tire1st2nd3rd4th5thReverseFinal Drive
1992-1995 Civic DX LX / Del Sol SD15B71026rpm=60mph (VSS) / 90.6mm (Speedo)175/70-R13 (DX&LX)3.2501.7611.1720.9090.7023.1534.058
92-95 Civic Si/ EX / Del Sol SiD16Z6 VTEC1026rpm=60mph (VSS) / 90.6mm (Speedo)185/60-R14 or 175/65-R143.2501.9001.2500.9090.750 Si Hatch & Del Sol Si / 0.702 2dr & 4 dr3.1534.250
92-95 Civic CX/VXD15B8 (CX) D15Z1 (VX)1026rpm=60mph (VSS) / 90.6mm (Speedo)165/70-R133.2501.7611.0660.8530.7023.1533.250

Last edited by TomCat39; 04-25-2019 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:22 PM
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I'm trying to find/remember how the ratios work. If I put the transmission into 1st gear (3.250) and we have a final drive of 3.250, does that mean 1 full revolution of the input shaft will equal 1 full revolution of the differential?

It's been so long I don't remember the trick you use of putting the tranny into a specific gear and turning the Input Shaft and observing the differential.
And my googling skills are failing me on this point..... bah!

-------------------------

Never mind, I found it this morning. straight multiplication. If I get it into first gear it's 3.250x3.250=10.5625 revolutions of the input shaft for 1 full revolution of the differential if it's a VX tranny. If it's a DX it's 3.250x4.058=13.1885 revolutions of the input shaft to 1 revolution of the differential.

Last edited by TomCat39; 04-26-2019 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 04-26-2019, 01:54 PM
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Built my 5th gen engine support today. Glue and screw.

Since the weight isn't that much and I'm basically emulating the transmission mount, I figure this design should suffice well to allow me to drop the oil pan without pulling the engine out.
Also looked at the rear main seal housing from the Z6 I took apart and scrapped and see I should drop the pan to take that housing off the block. It might be possible without dropping the pan but not sure I want to mess with it like that.



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Old 04-26-2019, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

Yes that seal can be pulled and replaced w/o removing the oil pan. Might as well so you won't have to be bother to drop the tranny again.
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Old 04-26-2019, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tony_2018 View Post
Yes that seal can be pulled and replaced w/o removing the oil pan. Might as well so you won't have to be bother to drop the tranny again.
Last time I tried to do that seal without pulling the housing, I was unable to get it in deep enough and the flywheel rubbed and deformed it enough to cause it to leak.

I ordered the seals today and 2 TRW front lower ball joints and 2 axle nuts.

I'm planning on dropping the pan and pulling the rear main seal housing as well as pull the oil pump. I will do both seals outside the car and then reinstall.

I also found what was chewing up the pressure plate. I found two small chunks of sheet metal (no clue where from) that was being thrown around as shrapnel. One corner of the larger piece was deformed a bit, probably when it gouged through the rivet of the pressure plate. It explains the sound I was hearing intermittently when driving it. Caused me to think is was ISB chatter but the input shaft is solid and no play what so ever. Also in my picture of the rear main seal you can actually see the edge of one of the pieces just on the ledge a bit to the left of the left bottom 10mm head bolt of the rear main seal housing. That's where I found the two pieces laying.




I also pull the timing belt cover off to discover a contitech belt in it but it looks like it's the TB224 not TB223 so I think it's the 104 tooth Z6 belt and is a little loose. I'll check to see which tensioner is supposed to be in the car, the B7 or the Z6 tensioner. And then I'll make sure that the one that is in it is correct.

The cut the lip off the top of the upper timing belt cover, that stinks being I'm not sure if the VX cover sticker is available and I'm not sure if I could salvage it for a new cover.... C`est la vie.
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Old 04-27-2019, 06:30 AM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

Hopefully you have a small size socket to fit inside the diameter of the opening and just tap it in. I don't think you have to tap it in all the way but you have to make sure you tap it in evenly, going around it, and flush. Been a while since I had to replace one so just going off memory.
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

Nice work man!
I like your attention to detail.
Would you guide me through the steps to pull the tranny while engine is still in the bay?
Good luck with your clutch replacement. Cool that you found the story behind the metal you found...
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Old 04-27-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 94 Civic Si View Post
Nice work man!
I like your attention to detail.
Would you guide me through the steps to pull the tranny while engine is still in the bay?
Good luck with your clutch replacement. Cool that you found the story behind the metal you found...
Thanks, seems everything I touch needs a little something on this car. Now could use a b pipe but once again, discontinued. This one is my fault though. I hope I don't snap the studs on the cat trying to break the 3 nuts free to lower the b pipe.

Sure, it's actually not that hard to do. You unhook everything from the tranny, VSS, shift linkage, rear mount, all wire harness (o2 sensor and the head sensors are clipped to the tranny, and the ground wire. On the VX there is a bit more work to get the inspection plate down as there is a bracket too that connects to the B pipe. Real pita. Once all that is cleared I usually pop the lower front ball joints and pop out the CV axles from the tranny, bag them and wire them up above the tranny. Then since I don't have help, I use my engine crane and attach it to 2 points of the tranny as well as use my floor jack under the tranny. Remove tranny mount and pull all bell housing bolts and seperate the tranny from the block. With some jiggling and prying and finesse, the tranny pulls out of the clutch and rests on the floor jack. I then play the lower in stages the crane, then floor jack, then crane etc etc until the tranny is down to the ground and I can pull the floor jack out.

In my case I had to jack the front of the car up 2-3 inches to slide the tranny out. If I had that midrise lift, I wouldn't be using the crane and instead just use a tranny jack. Also you need to pull the air dam and I forgot to mention, the lower air box resonator has been pulled to make things easier and roomier.

We did this same thing at a lube shop when doing a tranny swap. We used the pit jack to support the engine and without a crane we two manned the tranny out and in. The hard part is getting the input shaft into the clutch. If you are lucky the splines just align. If not you are putting it in gear and turning an axle a little and trying repeatedly until the shaft slides in.

Of note, I put the tranny in reverse, used some copaslip copper based antisieze grease. Marked the differential and the spent clutch disc and sure enough 10.25 revolutions of the input shaft turned the differential 1 revolution. This confirms it's the tall 3.250 final drive VX tranny.

Originally Posted by tony_2018 View Post
Hopefully you have a small size socket to fit inside the diameter of the opening and just tap it in. I don't think you have to tap it in all the way but you have to make sure you tap it in evenly, going around it, and flush. Been a while since I had to replace one so just going off memory.
I was using a small piece of wood. For whatever reason it didn't go flush. It went in a certain distance and just stopped. Started looking like the ring was beginning to bow in so I stopped. I figure there is a groove worn into the crank shaft so I want to take the housing down and see where exactly the old seal is sitting in it and make sure I go a little past it so the seal doesn't sit in the groove and leak. I also think it will be much easier to get the seal into the housing with it sitting on my work bench than trying to tap the seal in around the crank.
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Old 04-27-2019, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

Understood, gl.
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:50 AM
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Thanks, I might need it.

Looking at it, I don't think I'll need another b-pipe (a-pipe on the parts sites). It looks like I'm only mangling the bolt plate which is a secondary piece to the setup. I can cut the posts and use aftermarket bolts and nuts to secure the bracket holder.

I just hope the nuts come off decently from the bottom of the cat. Need to drop the pip to make getting the oil pan down possible/easier.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:47 PM
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My work is kickin my *** severely. Then again I let myself get out of shape by desk work for the past 5 years and I just changed to construction general laborer at the beginning of this week. Yesterday was not as bad so I went down and pulled my a-pipe. The parts sites don't show the plated bolts used to hold the bracket (laying right beside it)onto the pipe. They show it as part of the a-pipe. I ground the backs off to learn I didn't need to and probably weakened their clamping capability. I'm thinking I might just swap it out for two standard bolts. You can see the shiny parts where I ground the heads off. They are press fit into the sheet metal.



I also believe there is an o-ring for the flange to the cat but looking at it, I do not see how it sits in the pipe or the cat side. It looks pretty solid. Not sure how that seal works and I can't just bolt the two together and expect it to seal now that the 20+ year old seal has been broken.

Just another piece of the puzzle I need to figure out.

At least now I can drop the oil pan without hassle while I wait for my parts to arrive. Probably not going to do a whole lot on the car until this weekend. Probably going to be several weeks before my body adjusts to the hell I'm suddenly putting it through. :D
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:46 PM
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Thanks for rating the thread. Not rated highly but really, it's not a full bore restore and probably not well documented so I wouldn't expect a 5 star. None the less, thank you for sharing your feelings with the rating! Cheers.

Boss let us go early today so I took some time to install the main seals.

Drilled a small hole into the front main and pulled it out with a screw, Thank you RonJ for that tip years ago!



New Aria seal installed with some synthetic bearing grease and some EP2 Moly grease in the contact groove. I also didn't sink it as deep as the old seal as I noted a groove in the crank. This should ride about 1mm higher as I flushed it with the oil pump casing. The old seal was about 1mm deeper.



On the tranny side the old seal was bottomed out in the housing so I used a washer to keep a 1mm gap from bottoming out. This still puts the seal below the top point of the housing so I'm hoping it is deep enough to clear the flywheel but still sitting above the groove in the crank.



This is the gasket maker I like to use. Never had it leak and it stays pliable for an eternity. Seams the Permatex Ultra Grey gets borderline hard after several years of heating up and cooling off.




Small bead right where I interpret where the FSM states to put it.




Cleaned up the mating surface for install. I already cleaned up the housing with brake cleaner and paper towels before installing the new seal with the 1mm gap.




Installed with 9 ft-lbs torque on the bolts only to realize, I didn't put any liquid gasket maker on the bolt threads like the FSM states. Tomorrow I will pull one bolt at a time, goop the threads and re-torque them.



I also get to put the oil pan back up. The old gasket was less pliable and one spot cracked/ripped, fortunately I had just bought a new gasket for the Z6 motor I had slapped into my wifes car that I ended up pulling and scrapping. I will do up the oil pan tomorrow along with the water pump, tensioner and timing belt.

I bought new TRW ball joints and a couple of axle nuts so I will take the axles out of the knuckles so I can replace the ball joints before putting her all back together.

Other things on the to-do list besides getting the last of the gold off is, speedometer board replacement, the speedo sometimes works and sometimes not and sometimes bounces all around. Pretty sure it's the speedo board. Figure out the alarm wiring so I can get it powered back up once my fobs come in from ebay usa.

Last edited by TomCat39; 05-03-2019 at 10:23 PM. Reason: typo fix
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

Looks like it sits flush with the surface.
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Old 05-03-2019, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tony_2018 View Post
Looks like it sits flush with the surface.
You talkin the housing or the rear main seal?
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

Post pics of the old speedo board (both sides). I'm curious if they can also benefit from a recap.
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Old 05-04-2019, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by DaX View Post
Post pics of the old speedo board (both sides). I'm curious if they can also benefit from a recap.
Sure thing, will do DaX.

Tony, you got me to thinking... I am going to coat the rear seal with a layer of grease and put the flywheel on with a couple of bolts and spin the crank a little. This should let me see if there is contact or if the seal just clears. Thanks for getting me to think about it before full assembly! That's the bitch of a seal to do.
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Old 05-04-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TomCat39 View Post
You talkin the housing or the rear main seal?
The main seal sitting flush with the housing.
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Old 05-04-2019, 08:51 AM
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Default Re: Bringing life back to an abused 92 CDM VX

Thread had an undeserved 1-star rating, I did my part to up it ... but obviously it averaged out.

Speedo might be suffering from cracking solder on the PCB. Examine and touch these up before subjecting yourself to a replacement, only because the speedo is calibrated to the tire size to give an accurate reading. So, the VX with its 13" tires is trickier to find for it to be exact (I think a 92-93 CX will work? - compare the CDM part numbers). I mean ... does it matter? Only to someone for whom it matters. Also no farting around with matching the odometer km on a replacement one (yes this is possible -- I use the toothpick method).
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