I m looking for the best turbo kit for 350-400hp?
should I go on wastegated turbo or external w/g?
if I go external w/g, could I fit a bigger radiator?
​​​​​​​thank you

 

What engine are you using, start looking in the F/I numbers thread to see what people are doing to get to your HP goal of 350-400.

 

B series in EG civic

 

What base engine are you using? A 350/400 hp turbo engine with less than 2.0 liters of displacement is going to suffer a lot of turbo lag. If your on a bigger track you can probably work around it. If you are at a smaller regional track, you will want to run a smaller frame turbocharger to get better transient response. A divided manifold will also help with transient response allowing you to run a larger turbine frame size with less of a throttle response penalty.

Personally I prefer external wastegate if you don't have to worry about emissions and if you can package the external wastegate. Internal wastegated turbochargers are typically weaker in structure compared to an external wastegated turbocharger. An internally wastegated turbo may also have a compromise in turbine efficiency depending on the position of the poppet valve relative to the turbine exducer.

 

Mmmm.. Well, I would agree to most of the premise above ​​​​​except for the larger divided manifold, portion. That is a big misnomer that has been around over 13 years

 

You agree that it will suffer from 'a lot' of turbo lag? I mean, I know that it is pretty subjective as to what 'a lot' means, but comparably I would imagine most would view it at a low-moderate amount of turbo lag. Assuming an efficient setup, of course.

 

I would not agree with the majority of the previous statements. You could pretty easily build a sub 2.0l engine making 400hp with very little lag. Divided manifold not necessary at all. I imagine it could be done on gt/gtx 28 frame turbo.

My car should be making pretty close to 350hp on 15 psi using an internal wastegate gt2871r. I would say there is power left on the table as I'm still using a 2.5" downpipe and exhaust, small intercooler, stock gsr motor.

 

I agree, "a lot of lag" is a relative term too, as one person's quick spooling may be another's 'laggy'.

@ the OP, if you choose a modern new technology turbo like a Garrett GTX or Borg Warner EFR you can almost have the best of both worlds with fast transient response and 400hp flow rate on a 1.8 - 2.0 B series engine. There was a similar (and exhaustive) thread a while back with similar usage and goals.

A GTX2867R/2971/3067 or BW EFR6758 should allow you to reach your hp goals whilst providing a broad powerband. Don't go too low on the compression (~10:1), and keep to smaller but efficient intercooler piping and intercooler core sizing and you will have a fun setup. The Shodan would be able to provide some more in-depth analysis and numbers.

Stick to the T25 or small T3 housing sizes also, I recall The Shodan explaining that some of the small frame divided housings were really just marketing hype and don't necessarily complement the turbo's characteristics and flow rates.

 

Well, extremeracer answers my reservations rather well for me.. Basically, I mean, he'll get a lot of lag regardless attempting to use a divided housing with much larger-framed turbine wheel mistaking it for a "twin-scroll" turbine housing (The turbine entry point being divided is a necessity for a housing to be classified as a "twin-scroll' design, but not a sufficiency.. The larger framed housings (with the exceptions being the EFR and Ni-Resist Garrett turbine housings) are not twin scrolled, they are simply divided for the 1st 2mm into the volute chamber

Pretty much agree with all that extremeracer is quoting here.

Only the small-framed turbochargers from MHI, IHI, and EFR really show any true benefits of what "twin scroll" designs are supposed to do. Everything else focuses on top end power with a divided housing. I get into it with the EvolutionM people all the time. But I leave them alone and let them scratch their heads when it doesn't work out for them.

 

I'd advise against a ram horn or log manifold for heat soak reasons.

The S-Race kit from Go-Autoworks probably has a manifold design that would work well, and spool quickly with a good GTX turbo. Maybe the GTX2867RS option? Not sure how the top end would behave but bottom end should spool pretty much instantly.

GO-AUTOWORKS Turbo Kits Honda Civic Acura Integra H22 F20B D16 B16 B18

 

Heat soak is an issue for the intercooler to experience more than the external components in the engine bay. A tubular log is fine, even for the GTX2867R series. Which ever manifold is the case, proper ventilation, the correct thermal wraps and tapes, and good quality radiator are going to do much more in terms of keeping things efficient. The manifold style is used more in conjunction with the behaviour of the turbocharger chosen, then ambient temperatures under the hood. Those are two differing areas that are to be addressed separately.

I've stated this before, but Boersma Racing has good examples of a great Super Lap Battle Civic based upon what Tony the Tiger & I suggest.

http://boersmaracing.com/about/ - Super Lap Turbo Civic.

https://www.facebook.com/boersmaracing/

 

Thank you.
I m going to go with a B18 engine.
should go with gtx2867 or EFR
I would prefer to go with external w/g but do you know If a bigger radiator will fit?
http://www.go-autoworks-store.com/gorakit.html
​​​​​​​

 

On average, you'll have more available room with the Garrett over the EFR. I can only show you what I know has worked, and I'm sure the EFR can as well. But whichever turbo you decide, that's the least of your worries, as the exhaust manifold (Mini-ram) is what is going to hinder your progress by way of fitness. Expect to run a quality half-sized radiator. Since you're circuit racing, I recommend a tubular log for that GTX series unit so that possibly a full sized radiator may be able to fit with less complication. Remember, POWER is not the concern here, even flow is being used loosely. You want higher torque, and recovery response so that you have a more consistent power-band.. A tubular log or even enhanced cast log like the HKS/GReddy Styled one used can work wonders!

The intercooler placement will need to be essential as well. You want a least a 2-4" spacing between the intercooler and the radiator so that you don't have air turbulent conditions that cause a cavitation between the two exchangers. Remember, both the intercooler and the radiator are vying for that space for incoming air in order to do their job; the more you try to cram in an EF chassis with fancy exhaust manifolds, and such, the less room you'll have for anything else. (And no, an air-to-water I/C may not be the answer for that problem, but an oil/water oil cooler would...Just don't use the factory style version.)

 

Good "track ready" advice given here. As The Shodan says a compact manifold (length from head to turbo) is required in order to use a full-size radiator, You can run either the DC2 spec of a CRX spec radiator bearing in mind that the CRX version requires you to modify mounting locations. I tried this on my build initially but the combination of a large frame compressor cover and tubular manifold cut short any plans to run a full-length radiator in an EG chassis.

CSF and Jackson Racing have teamed up to produce a very trick oil-cooler within Radiator product, not sure if they have Honda B series fitment but maybe with a bit of DIY a generic one can be amde to work.

 

To piggyback on that, in the event you can't use the CSF/Jackson combination to DIY, you can at least DIY the Laminova OIl/Water system to work with the radiator.



This is simply an example. You would still need a good Oil thermostat (as either part of a oil-filter sandwich plate or separate part of the system) to work with this.



I honestly believe you're outside of turbo "kit" territory. The turbocharger options that are available for the circuit (from the Banshee, to the GTX2867R, to the EFR6258) are going to be much easier to plan and execute than getting a "kit", even from a quality company, and reconfigure it completely. You're an ED9/EF8 chassis, so you're going to deal with some fitment issues that other Hondas that these kits are originally designed for, would not. The best I can see in this situation is utilizing the Intercooler "kit" from a company, and even then, I find that skeptical considering the needs you're going to have for road racing. Most of the other companies like (Spoolin' Performance) have changed their direction and will no longer make products to fit certain chassis. You kinda missed the boat on those company's services, unfortunately.

I'm still assisting a good friend of mine of executing a project that is using the ED9 chassis as their dedicated circuit car. It's already been a year, and they already have about 3/4 of what they needed. But, they got lucky on exhaust manifold, intercooler, turbocharger, wastegate, Radiator, and most importantly, DOWNPIPE/DUMPTUBE already custom fabbed by Spoolin' Performance before they called it a wrap just 2 months ago.