I have few questions for the more knowledgeable of you..

ok to get a big boat as a prelude 97 to rotate faster in fast corners..

would i have to get oversteer setup ??
wich components to play/change to get "good" oversteer ??

cause ( from my humble point of view with my very limited knowledge )
to get the car to turn the fastest possible..would it be the best way to get the car to handle neutral the farthest possible..than play with suspension parts as dampner settings or springs rates to get some oversteer ?

casue right now my car is stock..and i'm still learning to drive

this week end at solo2 ...i tried more pressure in my rear tires
i'm currently still on street tires ( T1-S will get v700 victo soon
i was at 42 in the back and 39 in teh front tires..
the back started to rotate a little more and it felt faster in the corners..
the thing is that the weight wasn't really pushed on the tires cause they were only overinflated for their use and slip earlier than they should've been..

so what in order should i do to setup my car to good lateral G in neutral than dial in some oversteer to get to play with the car more during cornering ? ( hehe i like oversteer!!)

i've been looking into TEIN HA for some time as it is the only complete solution offered for the preludes..

but i won't be buying thoose for some time now as my priority is R tires..
than i'll be making myself custom strut bars and getting new bushings
( my car is already 80K KM ;p )

what is next ? do i need springs/shocks before the rest?

tanxs

 

I would suggest first increasing the size of the rear swaybar. This will cause more weight to be transfered to the rear wheels, which will reduce understeer and allow the car to "rotate" better when turning. I'm not sure of the size of the stock rear swaybar on the Prelude, but I would recommend finding out the size and then compare that to some aftermarket rear swaybar sizes. You may want to do a search on the Prelude forum and see what swaybar work well on your particular car. After the installation of the rear swaybar, then you should be able fine tune the handling to your liking with tire pressures.

I drive a '94 Integra GS-R and I replaced the stock 14mm rear swaybar with the 22mm Integra Type-R rear swaybar and the handling balance was changed from understeer to neutral. The car handles noticeably better and it now "rotates" in the turns instead of "pushing".

HTH

 

thank you!

unfortunatly there are not a lot of choices for rear sway bar for the lude..
i'll be on the look out for that though

so what comes after the bar ??


but mm ..if i put a bigger bar in the rear ...
the rear is gonna be more stiff a little to rolling nah?
and the weight is gonna go more backward..
that's ok

so if i want to get further in handling..

what is the best setup i can do ??

i will soon need springs i think and with new dampners..

how do u know that what you are getting is compatible with what u already have..and that u won't ruin everything ???

 

A larger aftermarket rear sway bar is the number one factor that will dial more oversteer into the car. Next are shocks; set the rears to twice as stiff as the fronts. For springs, stiffer rear springs will dial in more oversteer. The basic rule is: stiffen up which end you want to "loose" grip. Stiffening up the rear either by a sway bar, shocks or springs will get the back end to rotate better.

I'm also autocrossing a stock car as you are right now and tire pressures come into play. In run 39 psi front and 46 rear with the Kumho V700s, but even so they are not giving the car the same degree of rotation that it had two years ago with the BFG g-force R1s.

 

Danger!

Prelude rear Sway bar mounts are notoriously weak and will tear out with big rear bars.

And to give you an Idea of what you need this is the rear bar on the 97 Motorola cup winner car.

More here http://www.hondaprelude.to/gallery/F...6-02/index.php

You can get a similar effect by running stiffer rear springs, but they need to be pretty stiff. I'm running 325 F and 450 R at the moment. I find the fronts a little on the soft side and the car still understeers in most situations.

BTW I run 42 front, 30 rear on my V700's. Won my class in region last year. If you consult Kuhmo they will tell you to add pressure to the end you want to stick and reduce pressure on the end you want to slip.


[Modified by BB6Marsh, 4:13 PM 6/20/2001]


[Modified by BB6Marsh, 4:18 PM 6/20/2001]

 

Have you heard off any 5th gen Preludes tearing out the mounts? I know someone using a rear 28mm Neuspeed bar in their base Prelude with no problems so far. I use a 25mm ST rear since I have the SH and it throttle oversteers just like a RWD.

 

ok cool ingo guys

so wich bar to get ??
and how much am i gonna pay for that ?

and wich size..i hear from 25mm to 28 mm
doesn't the neuspeed one comes with new mounts?

 

hey..neone got more info on the motorolla cup car ???

i want specs and stuff..

 

I have recently done the ES bushing kit to my car. This particular mod increased the oversteer alot. It caught me off guard when my assend came out unexpectally around a corner in town. This is when i very first got them, they have since sofened up a bit. With the recent addition of a lower tiebar, Im hoping to be able to initiate oversteer(with a little practice) at our next auotx.

 

That MC bar is surely hollow with that large a diameter, and aftermarket ones are likely to be solid (ie cheaper). Don't compare diameters between solid and hollow bars unless you can calculate the torsional rigidity of each.

I agree that finding a rear bar would be the first priority, including any necessary chassis plates or mounts to make it work.

 

is there somewhere to get theese numbers ???

stock VS aftermakets??

 

You probably won't find any numbers. It's tough to come up with numbers on swaybars. Best way is to just test them out.

The above posts are correct, don't compare hollow and solid. Hollow doesn't necessarily mean less stiff, and vice versa. Find one that people are giving good feedback on, and that won't tear off or crack your subframe.

Warren

 

At the last AutoX event I went to I found that instead of completely letting of the breaks when entering a hairpin turn try using a light about of breaks until you hit the apex of the turn then gas it. I felt that this gave me better rotation w/o having to do any mods to my car. Unfortunately I only remembered to try this on my last run so I'm not sure of how much pressure is "light" and when to completely let go. Only practice can solve that.

There should be some more experienced drivers here who can better explain driving techniques. I have only been AutoXing for 6 events now.

 

This may answer some of your questions - https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=33949

 

Well After reading this i kinda began to think about how my car handles, Indeed it does sound like im doing things right, now heres my experiance..
For a while after getting my Apex n1's, I set tire pressure for the rear 35, and the front 33. I noticably scrapped the rear wheels during tilted turn ins, ect cause of how stiff it was, and had allot of body roll as well... (and i d realize that a stronger sway bar would have probably fixed this.) I also tried, the front at 31 psi, and rear at 33, that worked ok, but produced a lazy feeling car. Now the adjustment for my coilovers is unique, as these were originally designed for the EK civics. My rear is raised about half way, the front is all the way down, so its just the springs and a strut ballancing the wheel on the camber setup(progress camber kit w/ urethan bushings). Now the psi is equal, 33 psi all the way around. It feel more neutral, now its feel more breakish(if you know what i mean) But it certainly rides better, so i had thought about getting stickier tires, and that would produce a neutral drifitng affect with less breakaway, especially at the front..my car is so light and ballanced it wants to start puling away at the front.. My del sol has stock sway bars, I dont really wanna spend more on the suspension right now, but i would like it to feel more oversteer w/ control. so i figured i wold just add this mess into the equation to see if anyone had some ideas.

 

JinMTVT, there are other coilovers available for the 5th gen. Prelude besides Teins. There are also Tanabe Sustec Pros and Toda Fightex's. And Koni's hybrid coilover kit.
The 28mm bar is the old Neuspeed, the new ones are the same as the Sus. Tech. -> 25mm.

 

You need way more tire pressure, like at least mid-40s up front on street tires (or most R tires for that matter).

 

Steppin Razor: u got some price samples on the tanabe's and the toda's ??

what are the performance of theese compared to teins ??


mmm..seriously..
what do pro racer use in preludes for suspension ?

eheh

 

Sup Jin... I knew i'd find you here sooner or later... lol!...

I don't know about Preludes in pro racing series as there aren't that many (I think Grant Lockwood is about the only regular that runs a Prelude in the Speedvision series) but I know that the RealTimeRacing Acuras run Eibach springs with Mugen double-adjustable shocks, RTR custom anti roll bars and steel spherical bearings instead of conventional bushings. I would imagine the Preludes running a similar setup.

Personally, I don't like coilover setups like Tein cuz as far as i know you are stuck with whatever spring rate those came with. Where as if you were to use say, GC coilovers with Koni double-adjustable race shocks you'd have an endless choice of race springs from Eibach. Which would be much better for really dialing the car in.

 

Toda Fightex v. Tein HA's. According to Toda's NA distributor, the Fightex are full aluminum, 12 way adjustable damping, street or race use. The aluminum construction allows for less weight, faster cooling and rust prevention. Spring rates 440 front 220 rear. The Tein HAs are steel (from what I've heard, threads will rust unless taken care of), 16 way adjustable damping, SELECTABLE spring rates (good to have, I don't know if that's available with the Todas or Tanabes), and has pillow ball mounts available. Prices are ~1900 for Toda, 1300 for Tein, ~1600 for Tanabe Sustec Pros (don't know much else about these)
My guess is race preludes have their systems custom designed or they use something like the HKS Hiper Damper (~$3000)


[Modified by Steppin Razor, 2:58 PM 6/24/2001]

 

In my experience...what you want is one, or some combination of the following:

1. Larger rear swaybar. I looked and Progress (what I use) doesn't make one for the Prelude, and it looks like King doesn't carry anything either. Are the rear suspensions compatible between a 97 and the previous prelude? If so, OPM Motorsports can probably find you something. The OPM Prelude is FFFFFAST.

2. Stiffer spring rates. That is to say stiffer in the back than the front. You're gonna need coilovers (or a coilover sleeve kit) with linear-rate springs to achieve this.

3. Rear trailing arm bushings. When I replaced them (Integra) with Poly i almost went off track because the car rotated so much more.

Just don't go too far in that direction. You might end up with a car that's too loose, or at least too loose for your own driving style.

HTH

 

YO JSI MAN!;p
wasss up!
that's my man! ;p

like i'm gonna do spherical bearings on my car ;p
my gal would really kill me with the roads here
ahhahaha

i'm not sure u can choose wahtever spring rate u want with TEIN HA
if we can then TEIN is THE setup for the money

i'm now looking more into springs from whatever company is gonna offer what i need might end up with diff set of springs for front and rear
hehe
cause most of thecompanies offer too smooth springs in the rear compared to the front..or they just drop too much the rear
i think it woul be better not to drop the rear to much to let some weight in the front wheels while cornering..what do u guys think ?

and i can't ****** find the dam STOCK prelude springs ( 97+ ) rates ..
no one knows ...****

and i'd like to get my hand on spring rates from new 2002 ITR too ..just to see
haah


Steppin Razor
i didn't know that the toda's were that expensive..
that is just ocmpletly out of my budget
hehe

krshultz
The OPM Prelude is FFFFFAST
?????
GIMME LINK to them please..do u know what they run on their preludes?
and what kinda race they do with it ?

and why would i need coilover to get stiffer spring rates ?
i can just buy stiffer lineair springs nah?
explain please ;P

Rear trailing arm bushings :
mmm wich one are thoose.. ?? i'm not sure cause the prelude is diff setup in the rear than ITR/CIVICs
did it make a diff that much ?
wich company u bought the bushings ? poly or hard rubber ?

 

OPM's site is http://www.opmmotorsports.com and I haven't seen any stuf for Preludes there. They are a well known company with excellent products for "old school" Hondas. I'll be getting most of their stuff for my Teg "project"...

The reason you have to switch to a coilover setup is that those are the only ones that use standard 2.5" race springs from Eibach or H&R (for example, there are others). Those springs are available in almost any rate from something like 100lbs/in to 2000lbs/in and any height combo you like.
But those springs are generic and are not designed to fit the Lude specifically, that's why you need the race coilover conversion.

As for the stock rates, ask GC or OPM. Maybe they'll know.

 

JinMTVT - yeah, the Todas aren't cheap, that's for sure. That all-aluminum construction is a big bonus though and Toda is good quality.
According to the Tein website, the HA spring rates can be selected.