Has anyone removed their bumper support to save weight? Just for autoX. . . . will this upset the car's weight distribution?

Thanks in advance. . .

 

yes some people have.
no it will not upset the car's weight distibution.
no it is not worth it (from a safety standpoint). would you like to wreck your car in a 5mph bump for that extra .01s you'll get per autox run?

 

Removing that support is assinine. The danger of removing it FAR outweighs the weight reduction benefit.

Way too dangerous to screw around with

 

Point taken. . . . . @ autox, I met some suby driver who replaced his with some aftermarket piece that was much lighter. . . I've searched around and could not find anything to that effect. . . . Maybe a plasma cutter to lighten it. . . but as you'all said might not be worth it. . . . Thanks for your input guys. . . . might have to find other ways to lighten the car.

 

Have you ever taken it out and held it?

I think the one in my Civic weighs about 10lbs.

How much are you going to lighten it and still maintain its integrity? 3 or 4lbs.? Will that make a difference in an autocross? Nope.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3 or 4lbs.? Will that make a difference in an autocross? Nope.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just took a dump that weighed more that much and went for a drive... easy .2s on my 0-60.

 

EF bumper supports weigh up to 25lbs. the same HF version is only 5 lbs. the JDM ones are even lighter. its not just a 3-4 lbs difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I just took a dump that weighed more that much and went for a drive... easy .2s on my 0-60.</TD></TR></TABLE>



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">EF bumper supports weigh up to 25lbs. the same HF version is only 5 lbs. the JDM ones are even lighter. its not just a 3-4 lbs difference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So JDM ones are lighter? Hmmm something to research about.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you ever taken it out and held it?

I think the one in my Civic weighs about 10lbs.

How much are you going to lighten it and still maintain its integrity? 3 or 4lbs.? Will that make a difference in an autocross? Nope.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, I haven’t but will do this weekend.

Taking the support seems to be over the top but I'm getting desperate. I'm in the running for points @ the Houston region SCCA. I'm chasing down a GT3 porche and am .5 sec behind on average. My skill could only take me so far. I need a lighter car since I don't have the fund to build my motor up.

 

A bumper support won't net you half a second.

 

I know but a part of it. New tires have been ordered, test pipe next and sun/moon roof out(still thinking about it). Put back my field controller . . . . um that it so far. Next event will be on Nov. so I've got some time to figure some more out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jbs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know but a part of it. New tires have been ordered, test pipe next and sun/moon roof out(still thinking about it). Put back my field controller . . . . um that it so far. Next event will be on Nov. so I've got some time to figure some more out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what part? .01? .5s is a very large margin in autocrossing... removing the bumper support will not get you what you need and will also make your car 10x more dangerous... why?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what part? .01? .5s is a very large margin in autocrossing... removing the bumper support will not get you what you need and will also make your car 10x more dangerous... why?</TD></TR></TABLE>

As I said, I'm getting desparate. Seriously though, do you thing it would be only .01? Maybe in a straight line but I think I could gain more than that seeing that I'm carrying significantly less weight around each and every corner. I have considered the danger in it and maybe take it out just for the weekend.

 

What class is this even legal in?

 

You could remove sound deadening to lose some weight. You could also switch to some lighter seats. Are you running lightweight wheels?

There are plenty of safer ways to remove weight.

Your driving skills are the strongest factor in lowering times--period.

 

it amazes me how much ignorance comes out whenever this subject is mentioned.

I swapped the bumper beam in my scooby to the "JDM" one - stock beam weighs ~47 lb on my bathroom scale, the lightweight beam weigs ~7 lb - 40 lb off the front end, especially in front of the tires is a pretty considerable amount.



the reason the US-spec bumper beams are so big and heavy is not for saftey - it's because our assenine crash regulations say that a 5mph impact should cause no more than $500 with of damage - the bumper beams are big and heavy to keep the bumper skin from being damaged and needing replacement in a 5mph crash test.

I will agree and say that for a street car/weekend racer it is not worth it, as it will make your car much more succeptible to possible damange in parking lot incidents that might not even leave a mark with the 5MPH beam in there, but the gains from losing that weight are difinantly there.

as far as calssing goes i think it puts you straight in SM...

 

Its probably better to lose the weight off the driver!

Or ju7st swiss cheese it with a hole saw..!

 

My eg one comes off it less than 5 minute's and since it's not supporting the bumper there is no sagging

I spend more time trying to perfect my air pressure and lug bolt's tq specs ect

I've seen people remove them just for autox use and replace them with custom built tie bars to stiffen the front and rear up

Not sure in there class if it's legal or not but it does seem to work for them

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but the gains from losing that weight are difinantly there.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Safafafafa - Have you been to any track events since switching to the lightweight bumper support?

There has been some mild discussion in the ITR forum relating the front bumper support with holding the frame rails in line during a turn. While this might be different for scoobies, might it be something to consider?

I don't think you can use the JDM bumper support (which is lighter) on the DC chassis with the USDM front. (Not that it would be legal for most classes anyways, but my car strayed from legal a long time ago). Still curious about possible side effects though.

 

The car is a unibody which means just about everything from rear fenders to windshiled trim is structure.

You raise a very good point about this.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nino &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What class is this even legal in?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Modified. Maaaybe Prepared. (not sure, don't run it, dont care to look it up)

And no, not Street Mod.


/been there done that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nino &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What class is this even legal in?</TD></TR></TABLE>

STU in Houston's Regional events. . . its not Nationally classed. In our region, we are not to strict and allow 2 seater cars into ST classes hence my nemisis the GT3. STUnlimited is basically anything goes. Its SM class with street tires.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Safafafafa - Have you been to any track events since switching to the lightweight bumper support?

There has been some mild discussion in the ITR forum relating the front bumper support with holding the frame rails in line during a turn. While this might be different for scoobies, might it be something to consider?

I don't think you can use the JDM bumper support (which is lighter) on the DC chassis with the USDM front. (Not that it would be legal for most classes anyways, but my car strayed from legal a long time ago). Still curious about possible side effects though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Very good point. I havn't though about that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think you can use the JDM bumper support (which is lighter) on the DC chassis with the USDM front.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How about the JDM '94-'95 bumper support? They had four-eyed Integras, and their listed curb weight for the '94-'95 Si-VTEC (GS-R) was 1140kg (2530lb).

As for losing rigidity, it probably just depends on the car. AE86 owners report a measurable loss in front torsional rigidity with the JDM bumpers, but the enormous weight loss combined with extra grille area makes it worth it for them anyway. But that's a flexy early '80s chassis with a huge shelf for a bumper in US trim.

 

went to the track the day after I put it on actually

here's how my week went:

track day sunday, destroyed a wheel bearing.

Pulled hub monday morning.

dropped hub at dealership tuesday for new wheel bearing, while i was there I asked what ti would cost to get one of the lightweight beams there next day air - $89 with shipping and tax they said. "sold" i said. picked up my hub and new beam wednesday and put them back on the car in the rain.

Back to the track thursday morning.

You can tell the weight is gone, especially with it hanging that far out in the front of the car, the car just feels lighter in general, and i felt no adverse effect in handling, the nose didnt feel any softer, so i don't think I lost any stiffness by removing the beam. i should note that i have no extra chasis stiffening in the front, no strut tower bar, no lower tie bar, with the exception of the struts and springe (tein Type RE) the suspension and chassis is stock up there.

I have had the car to another track twice since then, once on race brakes and tires, once in street trim and slo have not felt any sloppiness in the front end due to the lost weight and metal.

FWIW without removing the bumper skin it is almost impossible to tell it is not stock, especially if you don't know what to look for

 

if theres no difference in "feel" of the car when removing the bumper support, then how the heck does ADDING "frame locks" improve the feeling. is the factory bumper support design that freely unconstrained its contribution to structural rigidity is nil?

just rhetorical ponderings.