i was wondering how the politics behind being a pro driver would be like? or even at a national level? im only 5 years in to racing autox and looking to get my novice racing license (scca) soon. i know im behind by about 10 years in the racing community but i was really looking to try and make pro in about 3 years, and hopefully national by end of next year. this is all going to be a 5 year plan that transitions from autox to road racing. now i know i don't have any road racing experince yet (hopefully next year well change that) but im hoping that i can be a pro in road racing(which is a high goal but you never know).

but back to the question, how are the politics behind the sceen? i already got advice on sponsers, but i don't really know how the Business end works. can anyone give any input?

 

How does the business end work? Bring a really big checkbook. That's the straightforward way to be a pro racer. Anyone can do it. It takes a lot of money.

Jason Saini's one of the few people not spending a ton of money coming up the amateur road racing series into "pro racing". I don't think he gets paid but I think he gets a subsidized ride. Pick a series you want to be in, see how the other people in it got there.

-Chris

 

p.s. there aren't many "pro drivers" here. Some people (Andrie Hartanto, Matt Lang, etc.) have run in pro series, usually at great expense to themselves.

I suppose one definition of a professional driver would be that they get paid to drive. There are very few road racing seats in the USA for that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">p.s. there aren't many "pro drivers" here. Some people (Andrie Hartanto, Matt Lang, etc.) have run in pro series, usually at great expense to themselves.

I suppose one definition of a professional driver would be that they get paid to drive. There are very few road racing seats in the USA for that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is true. Of the fields of "pro races" I'd venture to guess that 1/3 of them are paid shoes. The rest are paying to be there in one form or another. Some will pay to rent a car and some have subsidized rides so they only pay some of the fees. The best way to end up with $1 million in racing is to start with $2 million.

 

hmm....... the money part i know. makes me think real hard about it. it ain't cheap to rent seat time and i am considered kinda old(26) to actually think/start to get into this serious. but you never know i guess.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90_EX_Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm....... the money part i know. makes me think real hard about it. it ain't cheap to rent seat time and i am considered kinda old(26) to actually think/start to get into this serious. but you never know i guess. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Start by winning some races, especially national ones.

 

well see what next year holds. i'll probably try a few national tour events out. see if i can hold my own.

 

Pro drivers make a living driving. Thereby a professional. Real pro drivers don't haunt honda-tech let alone post. NASA drivers with "professional licenses" are just grassroots/club/amateur drivers with day jobs. Sure they've ran a few pro races may even won a national event, but they don't make a living racing. Want to be a professional race car driver? You need one of 2 things:

1. Lots of money---then add 20%.

or

2. Be a really, really, really good driver; get noticed; some luck.....*dramatic pause*....and lots of money.

John A

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda Fan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1. Lots of money---then add 20%.

or

2. Be a really, really, really good driver; get noticed; some luck.....*dramatic pause*....and lots of money.

John A</TD></TR></TABLE>


yeah, that's what it's looking to be like.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90_EX_Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well see what next year holds. i'll probably try a few national tour events out. see if i can hold my own. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Autocross doesn't count. National tours are regional. But it's a good starting place.

 

I would consider spec miata.
I think the talent runs deepest in this class...

If you can win in this class (at least with SCCA, I'm assuming with NASA also), it means you are probably an exceptional driver.

Of course, I have no idea of your financial situation. Before you can get sponsors, you need to show speed...maybe win a championship

If not rich, I would suggest getting a job with a top racing prep shop and working your way up the ladder. Prolly wrenching more than driving for the first few years.

This is kind of Saini worked his way. Of course, I think he was a national champ in autocross before making the jump to road racing.

 

how old is Saini again?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90_EX_Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how old is Saini again? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Late 20's early 30's

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vbspec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Late 20's early 30's </TD></TR></TABLE>

that's what i thought. so theirs still hope for me

 

All these posts about "you never know" and "there still is hope" are throwing me for a loop. Just out of curiousity here, and Im certainly not discounting the possibility... but is there a particular reason why you think you are going to be a national level driver?

Im guessing you are either very financially secure or have exceptional driving talent? In your 5 years of autox have you been consistenly winning races?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JamesL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All these posts about "you never know" and "there still is hope" are throwing me for a loop. Just out of curiousity here, and Im certainly not discounting the possibility... but is there a particular reason why you think you are going to be a national level driver?

Im guessing you are either very financially secure or have exceptional driving talent? In your 5 years of autox have you been consistenly winning races?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i have the season in my class(HS) with a beater 90 civic 4door EX. running on some azenis (on 14in steelies). have 23x,xxx miles on a motor that needs a full re build, with a bad clutch, and the car leans so much everyone says "it looked like you were going to roll over in that turn." its a low entery level class but i can keep up with the guys that run in my class that have "cheater" tires(slicks that are DOT so thier legal for stock and street class). and keep up and even beat other cars in higher stock class. like i can keep pace with a miata in CS(sometimes).

next year well be a turning point for me. run my 4door and re build it to meet stock class rules(engine, shocks and rims/tires) or jump up to to SM with a swaped out hatch.

if i do the hatch next year and it doesn't pan out (at least finish top two) then i'll probably back out, and just run the 4door just for ***** and giggles.

or i stick with the 4door next year, see if i can win states(came close this year), do a couple national tour events in my region to see how i stack up against those guys and go from there.

so next year is, jump in or just stick my feet in.

 

There's a huge difference coming from a stock class in autocross, to even getting your lines down on the race track.

I thought I was a fast guy in my region(NA SOHC EG, consistantly FTD or 2nd FTD)- Bellingham/Spokane....until I moved to a bigger race area(Portland)....it's humbling and makes you work harder.

Move up and do track days first, make sure it's something you even enjoy!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evs-One &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's a huge difference coming from a stock class in autocross, to even getting your lines down on the race track.

I thought I was a fast guy in my region(NA SOHC EG, consistantly FTD or 2nd FTD)- Bellingham/Spokane....until I moved to a bigger race area(Portland)....it's humbling and makes you work harder.

Move up and do track days first, make sure it's something you even enjoy!</TD></TR></TABLE>

next year is all i can to this.

 

going AutoX to Prof. Road racer is possible, but it's a long and expensive path. Read up on Randy Pobst's career here:

http://www.kpaxracing.com/drivercontent.php?id=7

 

I don't want to be a pessimist and who am I to shoot down another man's dreams, BUT the reality of it all is that you're already behind the curve if you want to make it to the pro ranks. Let's forget about the money for a second because with money you can buy your ride. Also, I'm assuming you want to make it as a driver on road courses.

The older you get, the more you have to prove TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE that you're an <U>exceptional</U> driver. Randy Pobst is one of the guys on a VERY short list of folks that made it the hard way and no one can deny his natural driving skills. But just in case you don’t have Randy Pobst like abilities, then IMHO this is the path you should look at. I'm sure you heard before.

The best way to make it as a professional driver at this time is to concentrate on open wheel. Forget about sedan racing. Note that most pro drivers in their waning/retiring years go to sedan/touring car racing but they gained their fame and fortune doing open wheel. Yes I know someone will scream that people have made it going closed wheel (i.e. Pobst and Saini) and there will always be exceptions. I'm just trying to describe the path of least resistance albeit the difference in the amount of resistance is small. At any rate, it's easier to go from open wheel to sedan than the other way around. If you want to get picked up, you better be fast in an open wheel. If you're fast in open wheel, you'll probably be fast in a sedan.

Most folks start out of karting and winning championships at that level. If you have the time and the drive (double meaning meant here), focus all of your energies on that. That will get you to the next level which would be Bob Bondurant, Jim Russell, Skip Barber open wheel school. After going through their program, you need to run in their open wheel series and do VERY well. IMHO you need to win their championship to move forward. And the sooner you do it, the better your position. Then you move on to bigger and faster open wheel programs until you come to your limit. Do not discount racing overseas (i.e. Europe, Asia, Australia) as they can provide a venue to showcase your driving ability.

If you feel karting is a step back or will take too much time, you can go straight to a Skip Barber or Jim Russell and give their racing series a go. Just remember you'll be racing against youngins that have earned their stripes in karting and will be fast. You will need to beat them to move on.

But winning may not be enough. Unless you're consistently beating your competition by a considerable margin regardless of what your driving and what series you're in, you'll need a "gimmick" to catch the attention of team owners. So in addition to winning, you need an eye catcher. For example, if you're a woman then that'll get some attention. If you're a fine piece of a** woman (sex sells!) then that will be an attention grabber. A rags to riches story, you like to sport a purple mohawk, you race with one leg.....SOMETHING to direct attention to you. And when the time comes for you to test for them, you better knock it out of the park as you probably won't get a second chance.

It was mentioned that Spec Miata might be an avenue. At this point, I believe it to be true although you won’t make it as big taking the open wheel route. Spec Miata (SCCA or NASA) have fields that are HUGE. As mentioned before the talent pool is deep. If you can <U>win championships consistently</U> on a NATIONAL level (regionals won’t cut it) then you have a chance. For example, the contingency won by the NASA Spec Miata champion this past NASA Nationals is to be part of driver search to earn a brand new MX-5 race car AND a full season in the MX-5 cup. Let me reiterate, the NASA Spec Miata Champion at the 2008 NASA Nationals (field of 60+ cars) just earns a SPOT in the driver search to earn a brand new MX-5 race and a full season in the MX-5 cup. That is to say he only won an opportunity in which he needs to capitalize on. He has not earned a ride or a paid racing season--yet.

So let's bring back the money aspect. You're going to need it. You have to pay for driving school, you have to pay for travel, you have to pay for parts, etc. Whether or not it comes from a sponsor or from your shallow pocket, it needs to be paid for. Haven't proven yourself to get a sponsor? Then it kinda narrows it down a bit on who is paying for what.

If you're a rich kid from the O.C. then pay for a good ride and PROVE that you're fast TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE. Once you’ve proven yourself, then you've only provided a catalyst, a jumping off point if you will, to a driving career.

Finally, if you want to be a professional driver, remember that regardless of how old you are, what series you're in or what you're driving, you <U>constantly</U> and <U>consistently</U> need to prove that you're fast. Racing isn't cheap and if you're not paying the bills someone else is. And that someone will be pissed off if you lose races, become a back marker, lose sponsors, ball the car up, etc. And that reputation will stick with you in a very small community of race car drivers and owners.

With that said, I hope that this provides some insight and it doesn't discourage you. Not everyone can be a professional race car driver and in the grand scheme of things, a small number of people have made it and even smaller group have made it big. If you happen to be one of the select few, then I'll be rooting for you from the grandstands in the future.


John A

 

thanks man. but like i said, next year well be the turning point. age is against me and money, so if i don't prove to my self and other people then i don't want to waste anyone's time or money.

 

You're talking about autoxing some beater 4-door Civic, or running a "swapped hatch in SM." Neither of these sound productive for your goal, especially the SM car. I'm guessing you're not spending money on the 4-door, and spending money on a whole new car will just set you back that much more. Save it, put it into a kart or something. You can autox AND race (on a track) a kart.

You're also talking about next year being your "turning point." Typically, it takes more than a year to make a proper impression. So, again, get your feet wet in something proper (NOT an SM car), and plan realistically for a year or three. At this point, it sounds like maybe you're quick in your region, but you haven't won ANYTHING worthwhile to show for it. You need the credentials dude.

 

i kinda figured that it would take longer but my age is against me. comming from Honda fan's point of veiw, the consideration for running in the mazda open wheel school/race is there. and i know what you mean and i take all your advice's on this to heart.

maybe all of this is just a pipe dream?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90_EX_Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

maybe all of this is just a pipe dream? </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's how most racing careers start. A dream and an idea. Put in the time and the work. If it doesn't happen then it doesn't happen. At least you can look back and say you tried. It's worse going through life thinking about what could've happened.

John A

 

Just bring alot of cash! Its lots of fun but can be very expensive and stressful