johng

There’s always a lot of talk about “HPDE” within the NASA race weekends, and after talking to a few of you on PM, I think I understand how it works. But what I don’t understand is how everyone fits in and gets any track time while it’s still daylight. Below is the schedule for our next SCCA Double Regional. This is typical of any other race weekend with the addition of Vintage classes (4A and 4B) at our next race. We don’t have NASA up here, so we’re not too familiar with the HPDE program. I’ve pretty much learned about it from reading here.

What I’m trying to figure out is how NASA squeezes in three HPDE groups? Our events pretty much run like clockwork and there’s just no time for anything else. Hell, Oregon Region doesn’t even offer a Solo-I group (which sucks marbles BTW). How many times are the HPDE groups on track, and how much time do they get? How does this limit the time the actual race groups get on track?


15–min. Practice group 6
15-min. Practice group 1
15-min. Practice group 2
15-min. Practice group 3
15-min. Practice group 4 A
15-min. Practice group 4 B
15-min. Practice group 5
15-min. Qualify group 6
15-min. Qualify group 1
15-min. Qualify group 2
15-min. Qualify group 3
45-min. LUNCH –
15-min. Qualify group 4A
15-min Qualify group 4B
15-min Qualify group 5
25-min Race group 6
20-min Race group 1
20-min Race group 2
20-min Race group 3
15-min Race group 4A
15-min Race group 4B
20-min Race group 5
25 min Race group 6

Race Group 1: GT1-4, E-FP, CP1, AS, T1, T2, SPO, SPM, GTA, RX-7, PRO-7, ITE
Race Group 2: FA, FC, FM, FF, SF, CF, FV, F500, S2, SS2, ASR, C-DSR, SRF
Race Group 3: ITA-D, SSA-C, G-HP, GT-5, SPU, ITS, GTB, SPEC MIATA, CR, CP2-3
Race Group 4A: Vintage Open Wheel. 4B: Closed Wheel, VP1-4, VF/SR
Race Group 5: PCA-1, PCA-2, PCA-3, PCA-4, BMW, RS
Race Group 6: Solo 1

.RJ

This year NASA has gone to 'open practice' 3 sessions per day i think. The sessions are slightly longer, go out whenever you want. 1 short qualifying session per run group (usually only 3 - ECHC, Big bore, small bore) and then the race. And then 12 HPDE sessions (HPDE 1,2,3,4) per day.

RJ

bulldog_RS20

HPDE is held on the same weekend as the races? at the same track? How many race groups does NASA run?

jc836

There are a number of "schools" that one can attend around the country. NASA, PDA, Trackmasters, Car Guys to name a few. The setup is very simple-if you are new you will be put in the beginner run group with an instructor onboard. As you get more track time you move up the ladder. Every run group gets the same amount of time on track usually. If there are 4 groups and the sessions are 30 minutes each-you wait for 2 hours to go out again. Sometimes groups are combined and you get more time on track, due to the change in time spacing. This is one way that both PDA and NASA do it. Trackmasters will allow you virtually unlimited time on the course as their format is geared to folks with sufficient seat time to not need the level of instruction that some may require. Take a look online at the groups I have mentioned and see if there is csomething comparable in your part of the country. For that matter, you can contact the tracks in your area to find out if the have FATT (Friday at the track) days and schools.

krshultz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bulldog_RS20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HPDE is held on the same weekend as the races? at the same track? How many race groups does NASA run? </TD></TR></TABLE>

There's not one answer to this question.

At non-Hyperfest weekends (of which we've had only one out here in 2003), it goes something like this.

HPDE: 4 groups, 3 sessions, 20-25 min. each

Race groups: Big Bore, Small Bore, and usually there's one other group, which varies. Sometimes it's Legends cars (which I don't really like sharing the track with)

Each race group gets a 15-30 minute practice, a 15-30 minute qualify, and an x-lap sprint race, which is in the 30 minute range.

At the most recent Hyperfest the HPDE content wasn't really there...I think they had one group. The rest was "Hyperdrives" (basically HPDEs that you pay for on a per session basis), Honda Challenge racers, and "something else racers." At Summit it was Spec Miata and 944 Cup.

Catch 22

NASA (VA at least) typically only has 3 or 4 race groups on a regular weekend.
An example from one weekend last year was...
-Big Bore
-Small Bore
-SCCS
-Honda Challenge

Most SCCA weekends I've been to consist of 6 to 8 (usually 6) race groups.

Yes, NASA is packing alot into a day and they do a good job. But, if "things" happen the afternoon groups track time starts to get compressed. I believe we had one Honda Challenge race at VIR last year that was squeezed down to 12 minutes (from the scheduled 20) due to a bad track oiling and a wreck in earlier groups.
On SCCA weekends with only 6 groups there is usually some "slop" available in the schedule so if "things" happen the scheduled race lengths are not affected.

Hracer

"Things" are also more likely to happen in a session if the particular session is a race group. As I've seen at track days, running 4 sessions of 30 mins each of track time goes by a lot quicker than running 4 sessions of 30 mins each of race groups. The first car of a track day group can enter the track as soon as the last car of the previous track day group enters pit lane. While following a race session, there almost always is a delay before the next group starts in order to pick up sick, damaged, or stalled cars from the session that just finished. Add up all the clean up time during a day and it probably comes out to the equivalent of running one or two additional groups if everything could run back to back. There are other factors I'm sure, but this is just an obvious reason that I could think of.

JHill

Maybe it has something to do with the tracks we use in the PNW too, as a lot of the time we have to be done by about 6pm so the drag racing can get started.

The WCHC at Thunderhill this Labor day will have 9 groups instead of the normal 7 that conference has. I am sure it is going to be a blast.

The one thing about running schools with races is that I think that a few of the students might opt not to go because there is a little more pressure when the place is packed as opposed to a more relaxed school only atmosphere like we currently have here.

civicrr

Each NASA region is a bit different. Here is the schedule for the upcoming NASA NorCal event in Reno. Note that there are bonus sessions attached to this schedule. As stated earlier by Scott (?), it also has to do with the number of race groups & if they are share the same sessions or not.

Start End ET On Course
8:00 AM 8:20 AM 0:20 GROUP A & C & Enduro WARMUP
8:20 AM 8:40 AM 0:20 GROUP E WARMUP
8:40 AM 9:00 AM 0:20 HPDE 4
9:00 AM 9:00 AM 0:00 GROUP A & C & Enduro MEETING
9:00 AM 9:20 AM 0:20 HPDE 3
9:20 AM 9:40 AM 0:20 HPDE 1 & 2
9:40 AM 10:00 AM 0:20 RACE GROUP E QUALIFYING
10:00 AM 10:20 AM 0:20 HPDE 4
10:20 AM 10:40 AM 0:20 HPDE 3
10:40 AM 11:00 AM 0:20 RACE GROUP A & C - QUALIFYING / Enduro Practice
11:00 AM 11:20 AM 0:20 HPDE 4
11:20 AM 11:40 AM 0:20 HPDE 3
11:40 AM 12:00 PM 0:20 HPDE 1 & 2
12:00 PM 12:30 PM 0:30 ALL ENROLLED DRIVERS- Passenger Rides, LOW SPEED- Kids Welcome (Time Permitting)
12:30 PM 12:50 PM 0:20 HPDE 4
12:50 PM 1:10 PM 0:20 HPDE 3
1:10 PM 1:30 PM 0:20 HPDE 1 & 2
1:30 PM 1:30 PM 0:00 National Anthem
1:30 PM 2:05 PM 0:35 GROUP E RACE
2:05 PM 2:40 PM 0:35 GROUP A & C - RACE
2:40 PM 3:00 PM 0:20 HPDE 4 BONUS SESSION
3:00 PM 3:20 PM 0:20 HPDE 1 & 2
3:20 PM 3:40 PM 0:20 HPDE 3 BONUS SESSION
3:40 PM 4:00 PM 0:20 HPDE 1 & 2 BONUS SESSION
4:00 PM 10:00 PM 6:00 6-HOUR ENDURANCE RACE (SATURDAY ONLY)
5:00PM SATURDAY ONLY- BBQ FOR ALL RACES, CREWS, AND OFFICIALS