Well, I'm 16 and don't have a Honda, but I wanted to get one but ended up with a Mazda Protege ES 1999, 22k, for like 9k. I wanted a Civic but my dad was paying the cash so he had the final decision.

ANYWAY, its an auto, which sucks, but doesn't really matter since I wanted to race at Mid-Ohio in August but my dad says not until the car is mine (it's in his name), and I don't get it for 2 more years at least.

Well, I really am obsessed with racing... Grand Prix Legends, F1, ALMS, Nsxfiles... etc. and really wanted to get started into it to see if it is my thing (which I am sure it is). I was wondering what the best way to do this would be?

I am sure this has been asked a million times but I was unsure of what to search for so I am posting. The thing is that I am normally really frugal and am already thinking about after grad school and the money I am going to have and what I am going to do with it (I want a Ferrari...).

But anyway, I have 2000 in the bank now and make around 150 a week. What would be a good car to get started with? As well as a helmet? Is it absolutely 100% necesarry to try on helmets first or can I get it online? I'm not sure there are many retailers around in my area although I suppose I could travel an hour or so to try some on.

I've been looking at everything basically... Miatas, Civics, CRXs... What is the best? I want something cheap that has a 5 speed that I can mess around in and drive 2-5 hours to the track and back. It doesn't have to be pretty, just has to work. Even good old american iron would be ok if it would be reliable for me.

Financially I also want something that I will be able to sell in 2 years for roughly the same amount of money. If I can get the initial investment back that would be great, because in 2 years I will be able to sell the Protege and get a car with a 5 speed that can be a daily driver and a track car, I was looking at E36 325is and such, but that is an entirely different question

Thanks for any help you guys can give me, you seem like a knowledgable group of people and that is why I am asking for your help.

Rikky Alessi

 

I hate to burst your bubble but $150 a week is not much to buy a car and go to the track with. If I were you I would buy a helmet and go autox. I am new to the road race thing too, but from what I know so far you need some $$ to do it. Just to get all the saftey equipment you need in it is gonna set you back the $2K in your bank account. That is if you already had the car.

See if your pops will let you autox the car, or take it to some HPDEs (www.nasaproracing.com).

 

And, BTW to you for not doing what most 16yr olds would do and wanting to take it to the track.

 

Does your Dad make alot of money and is he willing to spend it on your racing?

If the answer is no, it really doesn't look like you can afford to do what you want right now. And don't even consider screwing around with what you've got. If the answer is yes, why don't you start out in karts. Another sport that can teach you how to manage traction is Motocross.

It sounds like your Dad is going to give you an education. Thank your lucky stars, and do some real justice to his hopes for you.

When you make enough money to support a healthy normal lifestyle, AND a race car, then start spending your own money on it. You will be spending at least 5-10K per year in operating expenses alone for a typical club racer season.

If you really want to play with cars, you still will when you can finally afford to.

Read Carroll Smith's "Drive to Win". It's a particularly brutal book - take it seriously.

Scott, who isn't trying to rain on you....but the shortest racing careers are often the premature ones.....tell us more about your resources if I've sized you up wrong....




[Modified by RR98ITR, 11:17 PM 7/13/2002]

 

volunteer at the track, closest youll get to racing on your budget. not being condescending or sarcastic, i really mean it.

 

This is good. Lots of organizations (for example: Car Guys, and I think NASA) give you credit toward a driving school for working corners. By the time you can go on track (No on eI know of allows 16 yr olds in driving schools anyway), you'll have enough credits for several FREE weekend schools!!!!

Also, start autocrossing if you can. Not ideal with an automatic, but cheaper and teaches excellent car control skills.

 

My dad is fairly well off, but not willing to spend it on racing... It looks like I will have to look into working at some events... thanks a lot though.

 

The minimum age is 16 for many driving schools - you just need parental consent (and they have to sign for you at the track blah blah blah).

 

Hmm... seems like kind of a hassle... I was looking at NASA's site though, and was thinking about becoming an official... Free track time? Or is there a minimum age for this?

 

You are old enought to volunteer I belive, were are you located?

 

I am in Northwestern Ohio... There are several Porsche Clubs here... I believe a BMWCCA chapter and NASA has just started up... not sure of what else really... Located specifically in Findlay which is about 1.5 hours north of columbus and 1 hour south of toledo..

 

You can also check out SCCA ..... http://www.scca.org

If you are a minor, you will need your parents to sign a waiver for any club, regadless if you drive or just a volunteer worker. No club will want to risk a lawsuit and it is a requirement for their liability insurance. But maybe your parents will approved of volunteering since you are not driving.

If you are serious, Karts are the best way to get into Road Racing. You can buy a good used Kart for $2000 and maintenance will be a lot less than a car. You can race wheel 2 wheel and get a lot more experience than running with NASA or other amateur Clubs. Karts have much more events, almost every weekend there is a kart race somewhere.

http://www.nakarting.com

http://www.ikfkarting.com

http://www.skusaonline.com

http://www.spydrweb.com/kartweb/usa1.html



[Modified by Alexis, 9:50 PM 7/14/2002]

 

Karting sounds fun and all, but dont you need a trailer, tow vehicle etc.?

My dad has a Navigator but nothing to pull to hold the kart on, plus I'm not sure if he would let me use it and he got a good deal on it finishing off someone elses lease for 1 year and will probably get rid of it after that...

 

Karts are much easier to move than cars...

You can just pick up an old pickup truck (excuse the awkwardness of that phrase...), put the kart in the back and drive it to the track that way. You can also do arrive and drive karting with some places like Kart Racing Co, although that gets expensive (450 per race and then probably $50 in insurance). Karting is so much cheaper than racing cars that it's no wonder everyone recommends you start there.

 

You can get a used Van or Pickup for around $1000. Vans are better, so your stuff is secure from the weather and thieves.

Or convince your dad to sell your Mazda and buy a Kart and Van or Pickup that you can also use everyday too. It's a matter of which is more important to you.

Maybe your parents will approve of karts more since it is safer and cheaper. They have 5 year old kids driving these karts. Take your parents to a local kart race and talk to other families, so they can see how safe and family oriented it really is.

You should also buy this book and read it cover to cover. It's the best driving book around. It can apply to all forms of racing. Book is called "Going Faster" by the Skip Barber Racing School.

http://store.yahoo.com/sbi-2000/goingfaster.html

http://www.skipbarber.com




[Modified by Alexis, 12:31 AM 7/15/2002]

 

Hmm.. Karting is sounding interesting, but I looked around and sites seem to be lacking in specifics such as type of kart needed for the class, where to get them used etc., although I did find a used kart auction site...

But surprisingly, I did find some auto-x's that are about 15 minutes from my house. I think this might be the logical choice, although I'm not sure if I will enjoy it. I mean, I like racing in all but I am not very patient and only being able to do 1 run an hour or something like that does not really excite me all that much, but I will see.

Also, if I go to one, are the loaner helmets they have there acceptable? Or am I going to pick up some kind of disease?

I also contacted the local NASA director and am going to be working I believe at the new Beaverun on August 9th... he posts here named mansier I think...

 

Karts are a great way to go, but in my opinion, they are really expensive and finnicky. If you want to be competitive, you need new tires all the time, and new engine rebuilds gas, tools, suspension... that costs a lot of $$$$. And then you have to pay for a vehicle to bring it in, where you are paying a lot for gas(you're prolly buying a gas guzzler if you wan a van or truck)and insurance. Then add all of your living expenses together. For a nice used kart, expect to pay around 3000 and up. I would just go autocrossing.

 

Yes, autocross is a lot cheaper and more convienent, but you really don't get much "seat time" at all. It will take a long time to get good. Your much better off doing NASA style HPDE's since at least you get 2 hours of "seat time" per day, rather than several one minute or so runs. Plus you get to drive with other cars on a real race track.

Yes, karts can become expensive if you want to win the championship, but cars are a lot more. Set of kart tires are $200 while a set of Hoosiers are $800, kart engine rebuild $1000 while Honda rebuild $5000, and so on.

When you are starting out, it is not so important to win right away. You don't need new tires, engine rebuilds, etc every race. It is more important to get the "seat time" and learn how to drive first. Even if you have the best equipment, you will not win right away, so save the money for later when you need to find the last few seconds in lap time from the track record.

Karts are the best way to learn and cheapest in the long run. Think about, what if you crash your car that you need to drive everyday. Karts are cheap to repair and safer than a car if you get hit or crash.

I think the best thing is to get involved as much as you can. Volunteer, if not drive, at NASA or SCCA. Do Autocross when nothing else is going on. You could volunteer at the Kart tracks too. Go check out your local kart shops for info on used karts and learn from them too. If you buy from them, they will be willing to help you out get started.

If you get real good, there is a lot of sponsorship in karts nowadays. I know guys who have come from karts to race cars who all came from poor families, so no money is no excuse, if you are truly motivated.

Do a search on http://www.google.com and you'll find plenty of info. Learn all you can before you buy, so you get the right stuff. One of those links I gave you above shows all the kart tracks in the country. Here is a link to more info and they have a kart forum there, just like here. Go ask around for more info over there.

http://www.ekartingnews.com

 

I would definitely recommend you do autox now since you can very easily afford it with just your money. You would not believe how much you can learn about what it feels like to push a car (yes, in just those few minutes of seat time), especially if you are just starting to drive on the street, too. Doing autox at the same time as learning/getting comfortable how to drive a car right after getting your license is VERY beneficial, believe me. Your protege would make a perfect car for you to autox. You can work your way up to pushing a car hard much easier in autox since you don’t have to worry about damaging it on the track, being intimidated by the higher speeds, or whatever else. I’m always surprised when I go to normal track/lapping days and talk to people who say that they’ve been doing this for several years, yet they still are not really pushing their cars (for whatever reason). That’s where I think autox helps a lot, because it is a much more inviting environment to learn how to push your car to its limits safely (applying to both you and your wallet) while starting out. So, I still can't stress enough how much you can learn by autocrossing. But if you or your family can afford it, certainly do karting or get a cheap track only car that you will not be at all afraid to push hard as you are learning. And don't forget to have lots of fun at whatever you end up doing!

 

Among the good bits of advice that I should have followed was one from a guy who ran several professional teams (FAtlantic, S2000, sportscars) in California. He told me the best way to go racing was to stay in school, get a job that pays well, and buy your rides when you can afford them.

It's more than 20 years later and I am finally following his advice. There is almost no chance that you will listen to this same advice now but, on the off-chance that you might...

1. Determine how much money you have in your hands right now (not counting credit cards or "future earnings"
2. With that number in your head, go spend a lot of time at tracks and determine what people are actually spending
3. Make your decision of what to race (or WHETHER to) based on what you can afford to do competitively with the money available

I am not being a smarty-pants when I say that you could currently run a competitive RC car program. Maybe. Assuming that you could score Dad's truck for transportation, you could afford to purchase a used Yamaha kart but not the suit, helmet, tools, tires and gas to run it.

Volunteer to help out at the track, learn everything you can and concentrate on doing what it takes to get a good job down the road a few years.

Kirk

 

As far as the safety of karts vs. cars, it really depends what kind of kart you're talking about. Driving karts is more akin to riding a motorcycle, so if you flip (it can and does happen) it might hurt quite a bit more than rolling a car with a roll bar/cage. I suppose the single speed karts that have a max speed of 25 mph are decently safe, but once you get into shifter karts, etc. I'm not sure it's that safe, and it's definitely not safer than racing cars.

On the helmet situation, if you decide to buy your own, figure out if you're going to be karting or driving cars first, because for karts you need a motorcycle helmet and for racing cars...well you need helmets made for racing cars. As it was explained to me, helmets for cars are designed to take one big impact, and in karts (like motorcycles), the helmets need to take multiple impacts because you tend to bounce in karting accidents where your head hits something. And if you're worried about the cleanliness of the helmets (usually not an issue), get a balaclava for something like $30.

 

Another thing you can do is to work as a crew member for a race team. You will learn how to work on cars. You will learn little tricks about quick pit stops. You will learn that the fastest cars don't always win enduros. These are things that you won't usually learn @ track days. Etc, etc. It also helps you to get a network of racers/friends.
You also can reap some pretty incredible benefits. I blew up my engine on a Friday test day. I was unable to get a new engine for the car in one day. (OK, I really didn't want to pay the $1k to $1.2K when a deal is around $500.) I was able to borrow the team's car that I crewed for three years. We won our class. Our hopes for the season championship were kept alive because we were able to borrow the car!

 

Bravo! Bravo, you have your head on straight! You asked the right people the right question. Go get a helmet and autocross, you'll be the best driver in your HS! Stay in school! Get your HS diploma and then earn a good tech degree or a 4 year degree. Get stable outside of racing. I cannot stress that enough.
go out to the track and volunteer. Get to know what goes on and learn about it. Talk to your dad, invite to the track with you. You might find out that he will love it as much as you do. I too had the itch to race when I was 17. I am now 34 in my rookie year of w2w racing.

 

You cannot just smoke a little crack! We all know how you feel - we're all crazy about driving cars.

But since your financial and life situation is representatively humble you've got to be ruthless about your priorities. To whatever degree you have potential as a driver, it is already burned into you. It will still be there in 5-10-15 years.

If you don't guide your life carefully toward a healthy income you won't be able to indulge your passion like you want to. But if you can't help it, and you just gotta be close to the crack at least. There are ways:

I think the idea of crewing is good - I did that while I was in High School. The lessons you can learn will be valuable outside racing too - make sure you make friends of intelligent competent racers (they're not all of the same quality you know).

Since it is becoming increasingly difficult to be competitive in a well subscribed class without being a reasonably competent practical chassis engineer - you MUST study the available literature and read everything you can get your hands on that ties that back to what the driver see's and feels. Start with Taruffi and read forward. If that doesn't sound good, you're gonna need alot of money to hire someone to do it for you.

Here's a radical idea - and I suggest it to alot of people in your shoes.

Make up a small group of good like minded friends. Buy some cheap beater of a RWD or FWD car. Find a remote site and layout a slow to medium speed rallycross course - or even an oval. Clear the runnoff of obstacles. Fit the car with reasonable safety gear. Weld up the spider gears. Train and study. The most important part of driving a car at high speed is the management of traction - and this is a sensory thing that must be developed, no matter how gifted an individual is. Without this you might as well not even bother. Behind the wheel of a relatively expensive race or street car is no good place to make the mistakes you must make to explore the limits from both sides. Never go to the track alone or with just one vehicle - run your little training excercise with safety as your highest priority.

You ought to be able to do this very economically, and if you don't abuse the hardware there isn't a better educational value available to you.

Scott, who often has strong opinions.....

 

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned....

Many colleges and universities have very active motorsports programs. Typcailly, lasrger universities with engineering schools.

SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) hosts several annual competitions for college students. Ranging from electric/hybrid cars to Formula SAE (imagine a cross between a shifter-kart and an Indy car). FSAE is probably the single best way to learn about race car design and handling.

Also, several Southern universities (UVA, Duke, and some others) race Legends cars. These are motorcycle powered race cars that look like mini-hotrods. Very cool.

SO, if you are college bound, pick a school that has an active motorsports program and/or a good mechanical engineering degree program.