I was originally building a car for drag but I've recently changed my mind to build a road race car. I'm hoping to attend a few events this summer. This will be my first time ever doing road racing. I have the powertrain setup but I still need a lot of parts.

The chassis is a 1996 2 dr EX. My motor is a LS/Vtec with s80 transmission. Motor is built with low comp (cp 9.0:1). If I would've known I was going to go the road race route, I would have gone N/A. So now I just have to work with what I have. The turbo setup is going to be a mini ram, gt28r on e85. Moderate boost and about 250-300whp. Now for all the ?'s

1) Turbos obviously run hot so I want to make sure I invest in the best parts for cooling. I was thinking Mishimoto radiator w/ Spal fan(s). Should I run a full sz rad or half sz rad? I'm hoping the mini ram will give me enough clearance for either but I'm not 100% sure? I will also be running a trans cooler and oil cooler.

2) There are soo many suspension options out there. I'm looking to spend between $1000-$1500 on a decent coilover setup. Any suggestions? Pic are nice and decently priced. I've also heard Koni's with Ground Control handle nice. Any and all suggestions are appreciated

3) The car is gutted. no seats no carpet no interior panels. Should I just install factory seats (Si's or evo 8 recaro. just something basic and cheap) and get some experience? Or should I invest in a cage while the car is still in the process of being built?

Today I'm going to buy a Moroso oil pan. I want to get everything now so I don't have to worry about the car when I'm on the track. The car will also be running rear discs with hawk pads and steel braided lines. I'm just doing this for fun. This is not a street car (although it will still have tags so I can drive it to work every now and then). I'm not worried about the suspension being to stiff or the car being to loud or to low. If it works for the track, that's all that matters. I've always wanted to road race and I finally have the chance to build a car to do just that. I know I have a lot to learn about racing, but you have to start some where

I'm a newb so please, if you don't have anything positive to say just keep it to yourself. Thanks in advance for all the help and suggestions

 

If you've never done any road course stuff before, i'd strongly suggest you start with some local auto-x events. you'll learn basic car control there for a fraction of the price. Any good running car that’s not about to fall apart will be sufficient.

Jumping straight into the big road course scene with a fully modified car will cost you lots of money and time (time because you'll find the weakest link to your car and your driving skills really quickly and then be forced to fix whatever it is that needs fixing leading to less/no seat time).

baby steps, start small.

 

The only criticism I'll give you is that both your #1 and #2 questions have been covered in detail here before, and semi-recently. Search for "radiator" and "cooling" specifically in RRAX for more details. Try "suspension" and "shocks" also, though that is REALLY a can of worms. The short answer for that one: buy something that does the job better than a solid iron rod and roll with it. You'll want to change stuff around as you progress, regardless of what you start with.

Lastly, I'm all for caged/safe cars, but I'd say get your feet wet before doing something that permanent. It'll also get you on track sooner, assuming funds are limited. Even if they're not, time is, with the season starting up very soon. If you keep seats reclinable, stick with OEM options. Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get eBay "Recaras" or whatever. They are garbage.

 

dizmm: thanks for the help. I'll look into auto-x. I see what you're saying tho about me going to be wanting to keep on upgrading and changing things around. Thats why I want to try and get the best setup right now so I dont have to mess with the car for atleast....this season lol

cheezmonky: thanks for taking it easy on me. I did research the cooling and suspension ?'s i had. Just thought i could get some feedback from ppl using the product. If I run into cooling problems I'll upgrade when the time comes. And as for the suspension, like you said, its a big can of worms. So many options to go with But thanks for the advice on the suspension. I'll just go with something and if it doesn't work out I'll upgrade or change it next season. Maybe I'll just hold off on the cage for now. Like you said, it'll get me out on the track that much sooner. I'll for sure stay away from any type of ebay seats. Si's are cheap. But I loved the way the seats felt in my old evo. Those Recaros really held me in nicely

Thanks again for the help guys

 

[Ouote]
I've always wanted to road race and I finally have the chance to build a car to do just that. I know I have a lot to learn about racing, but you have to start some where



Dont worry so much about building.. concentrate on track time and learing how to drive the car closer to stock form.
Big misconception is that everyone thinks they need to build a car for the track, and being a newb and building a car before you can drive it is the wrong thing to do.
Go out learn how to control the car now as it is.
When you can drive the wheels off it.. (wont be after one event believe me)
Then start to make changes... but slowly.
You have to know what you put on the car does both positively and negatively.
Not all go fast parts are good for a car.
Learn your driving style and what feels good to you.
Money right now being a newb is better spent on seat time.
Get your essentials out of the way.. safety gear, tires, brakes.
Go out there, and get your feet wet, and most of all have some fun.

 

What Paul said. Just drive it. Make it so it will do lap, after lap, after lap. I would stay away from the half size radiator. Run a full. You'll need it. Koni/GC setup is a great inexpensive way to start.

 

as stock as possible, after a few weekends you'll know when it is holding you back.

 

What exactly is meant here by 'options', are there aftermarket options that are worthwhile replacements for OE belts in an OE seet setup, or does 'OE options' just refer to the stock OE setups?

 

Sorry for the confusion there. I was referring to some variety of seat that was available originally IN a car from a vehicle manufacturer (not necessarily Honda/Acura, I know some seats are swappable; Evo Recaros or something?). Quality aftermarket reclinable seats would be ok also (Recaro, for example), but the off-name brands are not. These would all work with OE belts, assuming there are provisions for the belt buckle on the seat mount.

 

dirty19: thanks for your input I get what you're saying and i'm going to just get the car up and running asap. I'll hold off on the cage, fancy suspension, fancy seats, etc til later. I just want to get the car up and running and able to do a few laps without breaking. Safety gear, tires, brakes... As for safety gear, what do you suggest is a must? I was just going to throw a cheap OE seat and run OE seat belt for now. Should I consider anything else? As for tires, I will be running street tires for awhile. Atleast one season. I got a bud who works for firestone so maybe i'll just get a few sets of decent tires t a hru him. This car is not a DD so the tires will only be used for the track. and as for brakes, I will be running discs all around w/ steel braided lines and a decent hawk pad. should be ok...

dtcevo: So def. go with a full size rad. ? Ok will do Thanks for clearing that up for me. And I will be purchasing my Koni/GC setup very soon. Thanks again for the suggestions and help

 

itrsteez: Being as stock as possible has been long gone! the car is already gutted and it's got a built ls/v motor for boost. I got the car with a water soaked interior (leaking trunk) and a blown motor. I did think about throwin interior back in the car but I figured it'll cost more $ and I have no need for full interior since this is not a DD. Like i said before though, I'm going to hold off on purchasing any more aftermarket parts. Just gonna run the car with what i have.


The only aftermarket thing I am contemplating buying is a moroso oil pan. It worries me to run a stock oil pan with a brANd new built motor. I do not want the motor to starve for oil during hard cornering. What do you guys think about this? Will stock oil pan suffice or should I spend the $ on a Moroso pan? thanks...

 

As for the seats, I've done a little research and Ive found that stock Si's do nothing for support. The better option would be Gsr seats. I hope to find a evo 8 recaro but those are pretty expensive. cheapest i've found is $500 for the pair but those Recaros are super supportive. I love em

 

Yeah, Moroso/Mugen pan is pretty important with a B-series VTEC motor. I know guys who get away without them, but I'm not sure how.

ITR, cloth GSR (not leather, you'll slide around on leather), or Del Sol seats are all decent. My personal preference is the Del Sol seat, which is both lower and more supportive than the other two, but some people don't like how they look.

Also, stick with street tires. Good street tires, but no R-comps (RA1s, R888s, NT01s, Hoosiers, Z214s, etc.). You'll probably have to dial the boost down to make them work (the streets), but it will be a much better learning tool.

 

Still being very much a novice, 10 road course days under my belt here's my .02. Drive the car as is and learn the line. You'll be better at diagnosing what you'll want out of the car after you learn it's capabilities in steps. I've used my friendly contacts with Honda Challenge friends as well as a good friend who has his pro license.

I've had luck with Hawk HPS pads and a decent street/track tire is the Kuhmo XS. They've held up great for my learning and I'm slowly stepping up to different brake compounds and eventually tires. Corbeau seats are also a decent lo-buck, non knock-off seat with good support and easy on the wallet.

Have fun with the car at it's various stages. You'll be amazed at how little adjustments in camber and caster can have on the feel. I'm still learning how to set my car up for my slowly improving skills. I too wanted to have everything dialed in for my first day and I'm glad I was advised not to. I think taking it in steps has allowed me to become a more confident driver and be really comfrotable in my car.

Best of luck and have fun.

 

Im still new myself to road racing with about 200 laps between roebling rd and sebring.

As others have said a full size radiator for your setup is a must.

I know searching can be tough on a topic like suspension so I will throw a few out there.

koni/gc was mentioned which is a great start. I went from koni/gc to custom valved and custom rated progress for about 1200. the koni/gc can be setup the same way as well. This is why you need to get some seat time so you can make educated purchases and not just go by opinions of others. A good example is some people like to run spring rates higher in the front than the rear, I personally run higher rear rates than front. SO you can see it gets complicated so start small.

I had issues with the street baffled oil pan from moroso personally and will not purchase another one. Canton is expensive but better as well as Mugen.

I run Kumho XS tires for HPDE events and have nothing but good things to say about them. I will be going to toyo ra 1s for comp use. Hawk HPS pads are great but with the power you have you might need a bit more. I run Hawk HT-10s which are possibly a good pad for your high hp setup.

Good luck, just a few opinions of mine and nothing to go by.

 

First investment .... Helmet.

 

Agreed - if you're not going to put in a roll bar, then keep OEM seats with stock belts. If you ever go to a roll-bar, a proper racing bucket with harnesses is the way to go - I find it best to do those all at one time.

A helmet (Snell SA2010 are out) would be the first thing to pick up. The new certification level means you will be able to use it legally for approximately the next 10 years. But SA2005 helmets are very inexpensive right now.

The Koni/GC is never a problem - go with the race dampers if you want to up the spring rates later.. not just the 'sports'.. Also I saw some pretty nice coilovers on the for-sale thread on here that may fit your needs.

and go drive it! You'll have plenty of time to modify the car as you learn and in between events... Just get out there as much as you can.

 

awesome! thanks for everyone's input

ok, I will definately be picking up a Moroso, Mugen, or Canton oil pan asap.

known: what problems did you run into with your Moroso? if you could pls share your experience, I'd greatly appreciate it. thanks

for my seat option, like I said, I really want an evo 8 Recaro but if i can't find one for the right price I guess I will resort to a Gsr cloth seat or possibly a del sol seat (i personally don't like the look of the del sol, but if it holds me in place, I'll get one) I'll also look into the Corbeau's also. I remember a few years ago I almost bought a set of corbeau a4's. nice and reclinable.

so kuhmo xs ? thanks a lot for the tire option. I will def look into purchase a complete set of these. I'll have my buddy price them out for me. I was even thinking of maybe getting a decent/cheap firestone brand since i can get those dirt cheap ?!...

known: again, thanks for the info on the koni/gc options. my buddy said he priced out the koni/gc combo and it came out to around 800. plus topehats, which are 200 a pair. so id be looking at a 1200 setup. and you said custom Progress cost 1200? geez soo many options!!! i think i'm just going to pick a day and hop online, whatever deal i find the cheapest i'm going with lol whether it be my original koni/gc setup or pic or something else. just as long as its not a super cheapo kit.

mental note; Hawk HT-10's....CHECK!

I currently have a SNELL SA 2005 full face helmet. I needed it when I was running low 12's in the quarter mile with my evo. Plus I do quit a bit of indoor cart racing and I didn't want to keep using their nasty, dirty helmets Will this helmet do the job for awhile? I'm not up to par on the regulations of safety helmets this year...


again, thanks a lot guys for all your help this is the reason I enjoy being a part of such a good forum. I'll keep this thread updated for sure

 

Just wanted to put in a few more .02cents ...

See if you can get a deal on Bridgestone tires... I'm not familiar with any performance tire under the name firestone and I wouldn't even bother going on the track in a car with suspension on a cheezy 'performance' tire... Make sure you get one design for track/auto-x.

For the suspension - I wouldn't bother buying those Koni's because they are valved for street/autocross spring rates. If you bump them up in the future and even run 500+ now, and a low ride height.. I would say go with the Koni "RACE" shocks... There is a lot of info on here about them - they're the SPSS3 or SP3 valving.. I made a thread a while back about them but have since picked up some other coilovers from a private party.

In my experience w/ hawk pads, I've had nothing but melted backing plates (on a car w/ street tires and a lot less power than you) - however I never ran the 10's, the hawks used on the race car absolutely destroyed the rotors and the dust was unmanageable. (not a big deal, but yeah). Since then i've gone to Cobalt Friction XR2's and my dad has gone to Porterfields on the racecar... Both have showed excellent (low) rotor wear w/ very even distribution and as far as my car i'm in love with the cobalts. Only thing is a pair will set you back about $200... I'm not sure what those Hawks run but if they're even close to that price range - I recommend another company.

That helment would work just perfectly for at least another 4-5years.

 

Hawk ht-10s were around $160, I guess I should mention I run ITR brakes with cooling ducts on my 95 civic hatch. I have never had issues with Hawk pads and I have owned several. I did however have my axxis ult pads melt at sebring on a hot day. The brands mentioned above are all quality I just dont have exp with them.

The koni/gc setup is great to start with but if you go with the sports you are capped out if you want to run higher spring rates.

The progress coilovers i got from progress here on honda-tech and they were valved for my setup of 500f/800r rates. either way if you get a coilover setup you can always get different rates cheap and swap them out. progress told me to get the coilovers revalved or rebuilt was 75 a corner so a pretty budget setup in my opinion. i was going to go with the revalved konis and custom rates but it didnt happen, im happy with my choice and have driven a similar car setup with konis and the difference was small.

MOROSO ughhhhh if you search around for issues with moroso street pans you will see plenty of people complaining of the same thing. I got it brand new and installed it to the torque settings suggested and it leaked oil. I tightened it down more which just made it worse and so on. The pan ended up being slightly warped and I always tightened it in sequence and originally to their 10 ft lbs or whatever. I have not dealt with the 5.5 qt race pan from them but the street version is garbage in my opinion.

 

Stock itr pan here on high hp boosted setup, 7 years and countless laps later still have oil pressure in hard corners.

 

Your SA 2005 helmet is still good so keep using it.

 

ok, I'm glad my helmet is good for a few more years. One less thing I need to buy

If I purchase Koni's I'll be sure to get the "race" version. As for the GC coilovers, one of my buds said that there are different GC rates I can go with. Since there are many options available, I think I'm going to go with 8k/10k. If it's too stiff or too soft I'll change my setup accordingly. Like I said before tho, if I find a better deal the day I decide to purchase my suspension, I'll go with it. Just as long as it's not something super cheap. I've heard good things about PIC, H&R, Progress (known) ....

for the pads... I will try out the Hawk 10's first. A little cheaper and I've also run Hawk in all my previous cars and they've treated me well (even tho I never tracked any of my cars. besides the aggressive braking at the end of the 1/4 track). For rotors, do you guys run OE? Brembo blanks?...

so the only problems with Moroso pans are fitment issues? Nothing to do with performance issues? hhmmm.... I'll try doing some research and see if anyone else has had issues with their pans not sealing correctly. If I get a Moroso pan it will only be the 5.5qt. Found a guy selling a 4qt moroso pan for pretty cheap. just worried that 4qts of oil will get hotter quicker than 5.5qts

root of all evil: are you also running a stock oe itr pickup? is there any difference between itr and b16 pan? I currently have a oe b16 pan. And do you have any other oiling upgrades? thanks for the input

 

I ran the GSR pickup, I think the 5.5 qt comes with a special pickup for it.

 

Pickup is oe itr. Running a mocal sandwich plate and huge tube and fin oil cooler.