Dynamic camber/Toe
For a gen 3 integra LS with:
OTS Koni/GC hyperco 450F/500R
ITR 22mm sway with OEM end links
Axxis ultimate brake pads
15x7 slipstreams wrapped in Re01R goodness
-DD/AX/some HPDE:
What happens to toe (front and rear) when the car is lowered(toe in or out)? For every inch (or centimeter) of bound or rebound what is the degree change of toe?
I was told over on sccaforums that for every inch the car is dropped the front gains a degree of camber and the rear gains 3/4 of a degree. True?
What is the "order of operations" for more rotation/overall grip? tire pressure, washer trick, rake, toe, shock tuning...i am somewhat limited on how much i can lower the car b/c its a daily driver. I would like also to avoid massive amounts of toe fore tire life/high speed stability issues.
I was thinking of zeroing out the toe all around, and giving a slight rake(front lower) for starters. Not sure how much rake though.
OTS Koni/GC hyperco 450F/500R
ITR 22mm sway with OEM end links
Axxis ultimate brake pads
15x7 slipstreams wrapped in Re01R goodness
-DD/AX/some HPDE:
What happens to toe (front and rear) when the car is lowered(toe in or out)? For every inch (or centimeter) of bound or rebound what is the degree change of toe?
I was told over on sccaforums that for every inch the car is dropped the front gains a degree of camber and the rear gains 3/4 of a degree. True?
What is the "order of operations" for more rotation/overall grip? tire pressure, washer trick, rake, toe, shock tuning...i am somewhat limited on how much i can lower the car b/c its a daily driver. I would like also to avoid massive amounts of toe fore tire life/high speed stability issues.
I was thinking of zeroing out the toe all around, and giving a slight rake(front lower) for starters. Not sure how much rake though.
RR98ITR or something like that (username) Posted the bump steer.
Your assumption that camber and toe gain are linear, are not correct.
As to the order of operations, that really depends.
I think (IMO/E) it goes like this.
Springs
sway bar
camber
shock settings
tire pressure
toe
But that really depends on the car... and what rules you are running with in.
I like to start a car with zero toe all around (assuming there is no serious bump steer issue).
And i like starting with around 1/4 inch or so of rake.
Your assumption that camber and toe gain are linear, are not correct.
As to the order of operations, that really depends.
I think (IMO/E) it goes like this.
Springs
sway bar
camber
shock settings
tire pressure
toe
But that really depends on the car... and what rules you are running with in.
I like to start a car with zero toe all around (assuming there is no serious bump steer issue).
And i like starting with around 1/4 inch or so of rake.
Do you measure the ride height (to get rake) based on the jack points or the unibody itself? I ask this because the rear jack points (on my integra at least) hang down lower than the front in relation to the side skirt/unibody.
based on this post by RR98ITR about the Type-R i will assume that the front toes in on bound and out on rebound( at ~stock ride height) as long as you aren't using that bump steer correction kit?
https://honda-tech.com/forums/road-racing-autocross-time-attack-19/bump-steer-alignment-info-50379/
4th paragraph in the 1st post
And RR98ITR comes through again with...
"IT ADDS UP TO ALOT OF DYNAMIC TOE-IN UNDER EVERY OPERATING CONDITION EXCEPT BRAKING."
Rear suspension toes in when compressed and toes out in droop.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...ght=bump+steer
1st post
Here is RR98ITR's dynamic toe (bump steer) settings on his car (not factory alignment):
I am making the assumption that an LS or GSR suspension has the same geometry as the Type-R
https://honda-tech.com/forums/road-racing-autocross-time-attack-19/bump-steer-alignment-info-50379/
4th paragraph in the 1st post
And RR98ITR comes through again with...
"IT ADDS UP TO ALOT OF DYNAMIC TOE-IN UNDER EVERY OPERATING CONDITION EXCEPT BRAKING."
Rear suspension toes in when compressed and toes out in droop.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...ght=bump+steer
1st post
Here is RR98ITR's dynamic toe (bump steer) settings on his car (not factory alignment):
Here, again, are my front and rear bump steer measurements taken at approx 5-5.5 inch ride height with 23 inch tires on 15 inch rims:
Rear:
At 2 inch bump: 0.085 IN
At 1 inch bump: 0.060 IN
At Zero: 0.000
At 1 inch droop: 0.000
At 2 inch droop: 0.040 OUT
Front:
At 1.75 inch bump: 0.120 IN
At 1.00 inch bump: 0.090 IN
At Zero: 0.000
At 1.00 inch droop: 0.060 OUT
At 2.00 inch droop: 0.060 OUT
Rear:
At 2 inch bump: 0.085 IN
At 1 inch bump: 0.060 IN
At Zero: 0.000
At 1 inch droop: 0.000
At 2 inch droop: 0.040 OUT
Front:
At 1.75 inch bump: 0.120 IN
At 1.00 inch bump: 0.090 IN
At Zero: 0.000
At 1.00 inch droop: 0.060 OUT
At 2.00 inch droop: 0.060 OUT
Last edited by offcamber; Oct 17, 2009 at 06:49 AM. Reason: added even more text
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