http://slow_the_hell_down.tripod.com/videos/

Scroll down to "VIDEO #5: Amateur Racer" and read his description of the video. Maybe I am hyper-sensitive to the wrong sh:t but I find that a prime example of some fine Jackassery!. That video has no business being on that site. What the guy (Carl Taylor) displays on the site is that speeding on public roads kills. What he fails to see is that video of Pat Olsen's Legacy is:

A) Not on public roads
B) In a controlled enviornment conducive to the speed
C) Complimented by numerous safety provisions ranging from helmets to track personnel
D) In an enviornment where the participants are well aware of the risks involved

He also fails to mention that it is at a HPDE. He doesn't want to tell you that the HPDEs will make us safer drivers on public roads no matter how slow or fast we are driving.

Finally he refers to Limerock as an "amateur racetrack". Hmmm - I have watched quite a few professional races there - or so I thought.

Sorry - I just had to rant about this . . . .

 

I agree...

But then, I think the entire site is "a prime example of some fine Jackassery!" as you put it.

 

e-mail him, have the people from Limerock e-mail him, I will e-mail him, and so should everybody else

 

carl.taylor@usa.net

Tell him what you think . . .

 

e-mail sent- tell me if what i said was appropriate

Dear Sir,
I am sympathetic to your arguement agaisnt reckless driving on everyday streets, but your inclusion of the video from a High Performance Driving School is way out of place. In no way can you compare the controlled environment of a HPDE to a regular street driving experiences, unless you have participated in one. I feel you need to note in your paragraph on the video that it was a HPDE, that the highest safety precautions are taken at the track, the driver knows the absolute risk involved. One of the main focuses of a HPDE is to enhance your driving ability on the street first, where you spend 95% of your time in a car. You are taught things like opening your vision 180 degrees, to control your car in understeer /oversteer situation, to react to other cars in a split second situation, etc. It is also a way that people can legally and safely drive their cars at above highway speeds.
Please do some research as to what HPDE's are truly and revise your website accordingly so those of us that do drive our cars to the max legally oin the track do not have a tainted image.

Sincerely,
Morgan Hitt




[Modified by urbanlegend21, 4:08 PM 1/23/2002]

 

curious as to if/what his reply will be - I'm sure you will share it Morgan, right?

 

wrong address Drew CarlTaylor@altavista.com


[Modified by urbanlegend21, 4:34 PM 1/23/2002]

 

I really admire this gentleman's efforts to educate the public about the dangers of speeding on public streets. However I think he shows Pat Olsen's video out-of-context and should modify his description accordingly.

Mr. Taylor misses the notion that people WILL speed, whether it's dangerous or not, simply because it's fun and convenient. In my opinion, that should be his reason to start publicizing the HPDE concept. Perhaps we can find (or assemble) a nationwide list of HPDE hosting organizations, then send it to him so he can put it on his site somewhere? Something along the lines of "If you must speed, at least do it on a track with an instructor and a support network. Click here to find such an event in your area..." ???

My email to Mr. Taylor is along the lines of Morgan's, although it's somewhat more detailed, and written from the perspective of an event organizer instead of a participant. I hope I get a good reply as well. This gentleman has obviously put a lot of time and thought into his cause, and we owe him the utmost respect for that.

Thanks for posting this, Drew... It's definitely thought-provoking!

Jon

 

Carl,
I ran across your website today and I must say I was not really amused. Your conclusions are vague and general but that is ok. When arguing something you really don't know enough about you need to be vague. It helps you save face. I did run across one thing however that I have a major issue with. On your videos section you have footage of a car rolling on a racetrack. Could you explain to me what gay logic you used to justify this being on your website? I can't for the life of me figure out how it correlates to your theme and your description doesn't do anything to help the cause. Let us examine it:

"This driver learned a tough physics lesson at freeway speeds on an amateur racetrack. On his website he admits the crash was speed-related (no excuses about "other factors.") How many of you claim to drive "safely" at those speeds with innocent drivers all around you? Had this occurred on a public road with less forgiving surroundings there could have been major casualties. This is a reminder that many speeders are just practicing their racing fantasies and using the public as slalom poles."

First off, Limerock Park is not an amateur racetrack. It hosts numerous professional races each year. Of course that is just an example of your lack of education and research as opposed to a reason why the video shouldn't be here. Now - having driven that track I am familiar with the environment - are you? The uphill section where the roll occurred is approx. an 85MPH corner. One would assume based on your website that 85MPH IS NOT highway speeds since the speed limits for the most part are 65MPH and less. Yes the crash was speed related - as are 95% of the incidents occurring on a racetrack. So what is your point. "Speeding" on a racetrack and speeding on a highway have NO correlation to each other whatsoever. Here is why:

- Tracks are controlled environments conducive to the speeds that are being achieved
- Safety provisions are in place to minimize the effects of the speed. These include crash helmets, safety harnesses, trained emergency personnel at every corner and EMS staff on-site
- The participants are well aware of the risks involved and accept them openly
- The participants are surrounded by other participants who are concentrating on their driving as opposed to talking on a cellphone or reading the newspaper

Further - had you researched before opening your pie-hole you would have learned that the incident occurred at a NASA HPDE (National Auto Sports Association High-Performance Driver Education). Now perhaps you thought about it but neglected to post that because you wouldn't want people to know that the driver was learning how to control his car in adverse conditions. What this means is that he will be a safer driver on public roads no matter how slow or fast he goes. Since you seem like a Safety **** I would have thought you would point this out since this individual is taking additional steps to make him a better driver. I guess you are just a one-sided fool who has no clue what his goals really are.

So based on what your site discusses this video is not a valuable addition. It does not meet the criteria of any of your goals other than the speed thing. If that is the only connection then are you saying that racing should be banned as well? If speed is the only factor then where is the Dale Earnhardt crash video? Hell - speed AND Dale's stupidity contributed to that incident. What you don't realize is that most people who race on tracks learn a healthy respect for speed. They learn that you leave the track driving at the track and keep it off the public roads. Instead of making an example out of that video you should be commending the driver for taking the initiative for making him a better driver on the roads.

Get a clue!

Drew

 

Yep. If that's the worst that this guy has seen, he's led a pretty sheltered life.

 

Wasnt that THE INSTRUCTOR driving????!!!!

 

I don't know if Pat was the instructor or not.

 

Pat Olsen is not an instructor as far as I know. And he was driving when the car rolled (apparently without an instructor, although I don't know what group he was in... it was a NASA event, so presumably not Beginner or Intermediate).

Get Pat's entire write-up at this link...

Jon

 

Pat is probably in Advanced. He is not new to track driving.

EDIT: Just read, it was his 3rd track event.


[Modified by Cobra, 2:08 PM 1/23/2002]

 

From his website:


"The event was my third track event, and my second at Lime Rock."


I'll wonder out loud... where was his instructor during all this?

[Edit: never mind, forget it, I'm getting off-topic...]

Jon




[Modified by JonSE-R, 2:15 PM 1/23/2002]

 

I was instructing on the track at the time when the roll over occured. If I remember correctly, it was the intermediate group, 1st run session of the day.

Matt

 

Ahh! I see. My bad.

 

Does Pat know his video is on this website? Has he given permission for it to be used? I'm thinking I'm going to email him right now about it.....

Karen

 

Let us know what he says Karen

 

Good Idea.

 

Will do. I just sent him the email. He frequents the Impreza Club forums (http://www.i-club.com), and I wonder what those guys would say about that moron's website.... Hmmmmm.... no, I'm not going to stir up trouble....

Karen

 

I'm pretty new to instructing, so I'm not really in a position to comment, but what could the instructor have done other than remind him of cold tires (1st session), to take it easy and gradually build up speed as the day progresses? I would really hate to be passenger inside a car that you feel will not make the turn and then roll over. I also do not think it is wise to push as near the limit as in the video on your 3rd track day. It takes very small mistakes or miss-judgments of speed to get the car into a slide if you're near the limit and if you're not ready to catch it (quite likely you won't be on a 3rd track day) then the consequence is kind of pricey unfortunately.


[Modified by Hracer, 5:12 PM 1/23/2002]

 

He would probably be yelling, "GAS GAS GAS GAS"!

 

Well, I just got a message back from Pat, and get this -- he'd already been alerted to the website through the Subaru guys! He says, "Mr. Taylor is about to get a letter from a lawyer who happens to be a fellow open tracker (who heard about my predicament through a post I started on http://www.corner-carvers.com )." He's also sending a letter to Tripod to get the site shut down.

Cobra, did you initially read about this website through corner-carvers? Just wondering, since I know you frequent that forum too.

Karen

 

Yeah I heard about it at CC.com.