Just curious if anyone here is running now or knows of someone running a regional or nationally competetive second generation CRX in CSP. I have looked through some of the old archive results and I see very few of the second generation CRX's quite a few first generations but thats it. I would love to be able to with lots more driving and I am sure a lot of money be fairly competetive with my 89 CRX. Am I just living in a fantasy world or is this a capable car?

 

super capable....
I would say the majority of the cars raced in this forum are CRX's

 

i found the CRX to be very capable, but not as competitive as a miata which is in the same class. but then again, im not a great driver, and my old SF region had some national champions in that class.

the amount of modifications SP does allow is pretty well aligned to a good car youd setup for daily driving if you dont care about horsepower mods. so its a fun class to bring your daily driver.

 

To have anychance nationally in a CRX in CSP you have to use the Update/Back date rule your advantage by taking an HF (preferably 88 or 89) and placing an SI drivetrain in it. Alen Kugler was the top honda in CSP at nationals (finishing 2nd for about three years in a row) in one prepared like this from about 2000-2003. Most of the top drivers in CSP have given up on the CRX's though becasue of the Miata and MR-2 Spyder. The final draw for many was allowing the Miatas to remove their soft tops becasue the MS limited edition version did not come with one. THis allowwed the very capabel car to lose another 40-50 lbs. While the CRX is still a capable car and can certainly finish in the trophies, it would be hard pressed to win with one at nationals. Especially, considering Rod McGeorge's MR-2 that won last season, with Tim Aro driving, has room for improvement in the prep level of the rules. This tells me CSP is only going to be getting faster.

 

you may be better off with a first gen. i said may, not always.. heheee. they are much lighter stock.. and offer only a little less HP.. parts are beginning to get extremely hard to find, as koni has discontinued shocks even. but they are mighty fun..

good luck with the 2nd gen, though. they are great cars. i had my 90 for 4 years, but was in SM2 due to a b16a swap. hehehee.

 

OT: I sort of wonder about the 1st gens for STS2 for the same reason.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Burgh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OT: I sort of wonder about the 1st gens for STS2 for the same reason. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i don't think they could be sorted out as easily on street tires.. sounds weird, but i think the t-bar design makes them need the grip..

 

So do you think that the Miata is just a lot more capable car or is it that it is a easier car to be competetive in so a lot of people are going with it? I know they are fast my buddy is running one is CSP but I got to think that the CRX can hang with it. So no one on here has been real competetive with a CSP crx? What about even on a local level?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wacrxguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So do you think that the Miata is just a lot more capable car or is it that it is a easier car to be competetive in so a lot of people are going with it? I know they are fast my buddy is running one is CSP but I got to think that the CRX can hang with it. So no one on here has been real competetive with a CSP crx? What about even on a local level? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Locally, you can win in anything. I can win CSP in my ES car locally....and with ease.

The only competitive driver in a 2nd gen on the East Coast campaigning nationally right now is Ian Baker. He's got an 88 HF I believe with the Si drivetrain. The miata IS better, but its close, and if you're just running around locally, and you like CRXs, go for it.

If youre quest is to have a jacket with your name embroidered on it and your name in the back of the rulebook, why not look at STS2?

 

Has STS2 been officially adopted this year because I cant find anything about it in the 2005 rulebook? It sure would be a cheaper class to run in.

 

oops never mind I found the supplement. thanks for the idea

 

Yeah, Ian just put an 89 HF together over the winter (actually this spring). I have been helping him try and get it sorted out. I have driven it several times already. It is amazing the difference wieght can make. My car is a very capable regional car and his feels like a brute compared to mine. He still has a long way to go on that car. It does not have a fully built engine in it yet, and Ian is still very much tyring to sort out handling issues. I have to say that if he can get the car to hook up properly the car will be very fast, even without a built engine.

I agree with Jesse though, don't get me wrong, I am not saying a CRX can't do well, even trophying at nationals is still very capable in the right hands. I just think it is starting to slip a little more and more in the CSP world. I love running CSP in my CRX. The cars are amazing how well they handle when properly set up.

I also agree that STS2 is the best place for 2nd gen CRX's right now. I am seriously considering taking mine there next season. Besides, you can always use STS2 as a stepping stone to CSP if you would like.

Good luck

 

You dont think the Miata would own the STS2 catagorgy as well. Or is there something that these Miata guys are doing in CSP that they cant do in STS2.
I have had a lot of fun with the car in CSP so far and I guess I may have to settle for just having a competetive not top of the pack finisher. I guess weight does make a big difference. My car is a CRX DX and I have the Autopower roll bar installed for that extra bit of safety for track days. Thanks for all of the help so far.

 

The miata's with LSD are not premitted to run in STS2. This makes the playing field much more even. It really has not been determined which will be the best, but the difference between them is so close that I have to say that the CRX is a good choice for the class. I have seen a ton of people purchasing them as well, so obvioulsy I am not the only one that thinks this.

 

but if the LSD was what really seperated them then they should still be very close in CSP because both cars could then run with a LSD I think I will probably stay in CSP I was looking at the STS rules and they do not have the update backdate rule so I would be stuck with that damn little 1.5 engine that came in my car.

 

I think you need to sit back and decide exactly what you want.

If you want to build a car for a particular class, and you're competitive, you might as well stop spending money on the current car and go buy the EXACT car you need to get the best of the best. If that's a CRX Si (for STS2) or HF (for CSP), go do it.

If you don't care about placing nationally, that 1.5L is perfectly fine in STS2 regionally.

The Miata in CSP is much better because it can lose a LOT of weight. You can take an early 1.6L car, drop in the '99+ 1.8L motor, and you're looking at an easy sub 1950 lb car with a good 125-130 rwhp and similar torque, and a couple different tranny choices. Andy's old ES car was JUST on the heavy side of 2000 lbs, and it was in STOCK CLASS!

In STS2, you won't be able to get the Miata down near the weight of an '88 Si CRX, so some of it's advantage goes away. Not to mention that they won't have any more power than the CRX both in STS2 motor trim.

 

i really think the big thing to overcome in CSP is weight. horsepower for most of the cars mentioned are within about 10 hp. remember, the 85-87 Si's had 92 hp... compared to like 108 or so for a newer car? although only 3 valves per cylinder compared to 4.. the earlier ones are much lighter. and i think CSP is a relatively lower-horsepower class compared to some of the other classes you could be in. although, locally, i think a blue first gen is making somewhere around 140-150hp..

but i honestly think that with the same amount of preparation, an 84-87 crx can be more competitive in CSP than an 88-91. although, if you're not worried about going to nationals, i would stick with what you have. and i'm definately not saying it can't be done, cause it can and i'm sure it has, but it is hard..


and btw, yes ian is very competitive.. he's been kickin my butt for 3 or 4 years now.. and it sucks.. so i'm moving to SM sometime soon. hehee.


oh, and why miatas are "better"- you can buy anything you want for one, and they are STILL being made.. whereas the early hondas like mine and yours, parts are beginning to be discontinued.. plus, the more people that run miatas, the easier it is to find a setup that works.

 

Yah you bring up a lot of good parts I totoally forgot that the first generations have so much horespower and there aftermarket stuff is getting harder and harder to find. I think I will just stick with my little 89 CRX and see where it takes me. I have had a blast with it so far and with all of the work I have put in too it I would have a really hard time letting go of it. Hey maybe those damn little Miata's will do so well and dominate the class so much they will bump them up a class. Hey there is always hoping right. Is that Ian guy on the forums here I would love to pick his brain about his setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crosser &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, Ian just put an 89 HF together over the winter (actually this spring). I have been helping him try and get it sorted out. I have driven it several times already. It is amazing the difference wieght can make. My car is a very capable regional car and his feels like a brute compared to mine. He still has a long way to go on that car. It does not have a fully built engine in it yet, and Ian is still very much tyring to sort out handling issues. I have to say that if he can get the car to hook up properly the car will be very fast, even without a built engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Is this the car that was at the Atlanta ProSolo?

It did nothing to discourage me from picking up a CRX myself, though mine will be a tire squealer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by steverife &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Is this the car that was at the Atlanta ProSolo?

It did nothing to discourage me from picking up a CRX myself, though mine will be a tire squealer. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Gee, I wonder where you got that car?

 

I'm building up a '91 CRX for CSP. I don't expect it to beat the top level Miatas but I think it might trophy if I can drive it well enough. I started out with a '90 Si chassis that I had wrecked, bought an '88 HF chassis that ended up being too rusty to use, and found a cheap '91 DX chassis with a blown motor. Took me about four years to finish the car but that's doing everything myself including bodywork and paint in my spare time and in my garage. I used as many parts from the HF as I could, but the biggest weight savings came from the bumpers.

Right now the car is at 1975 lbs in race trim. I think I can get it down to around 1900 with light seats, short exhaust, and replacing some other items with lighter HF components. I've seen an 88 HF/Si combo weigh in at 1850 lbs (wasn't Kugler's - I don't know what his weighed), and the 1st gen CRX's typically are around 1700 lbs or so. A maxed-out CSP Miata will be about 1900 lbs.

Seems like several people have built up 2nd gen CRX's for CSP and never quite managed to take 1st. The RX2/3's have been so strong for so many years I figured they would hold the top spots until they just fell apart. Several years ago Guy Ankeny built up an awesome Miata that won and he was using 16x10" wheels with 245 Hoosiers. Just goes to show that it takes the right combination of driver and car set-up, but I think the Miata being light weight, 50-50 balance, lower CG and RWD has more potential to begin with. The only reason I went the CRX route is because it was the least-cost option for me and at this point I'm not really going all-out for a title.

-Brian Meyer

 

The top first gen CSP cars are at or just a hair below 1600 lbs in CSP trim. I know Ian's HF/Si car was weighed at Alanta (yes it was the one in Atlanta) at about 1850. It is below that now and still has a few more itmes to lighten up with.

The First gens are not making 140-150 hp. The reason they are so fast is light weight. They are probably about 110 - maybe 115 to the wheel. But when you weigh 1590, that is plenty.

I have always prefered the second generation CRX's my self, even if they are a little heavier than the first gen. They have more power and a much better suspension.

I think it was '97 when Guy won nationals in that Miata, that was the first Miata to win nationals in CSP. Man that car was fast. And think they can lighten up much more now with update/backdates options that were not available at that time.

I really look for more people to start building MR-2 spyders for CSP here soon. They have great balance the with mid engine design and Tim/Rod have shown they can more than do it. That is the car I would be looking at right now if I wanted to build a true national contender in CSP.

Good luck with your CRX Brian.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crosser &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I really look for more people to start building MR-2 spyders for CSP here soon. They have great balance the with mid engine design and Tim/Rod have shown they can more than do it. That is the car I would be looking at right now if I wanted to build a true national contender in CSP.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

As fast as the current top CSP cars are, I think all EF civics (not CRX) should goto DSP, where I believe they are now far more suited to play with the *apparentlyNotESP* BMWs and Lexus'



*ducks for cover*

 

In my opinion, the biggest thing that hurts the CRX in CSP is the fact the motor is connected to the wrong set of wheels The miatas are now light enough and have more than enough power to out run CRXs and Tim's amazing driving and mid engine MR2 showed last year how quick that package can be. But a properly prepared and well driven CRX is still a top 5 nationals combination for sure.

 

alright I have about 1300 dollars to spend on a few little upgrades to my car. I am unfortunatly running the original 1.5 liter engine in my car I have a complete 1.6 liter SI motor but it is old like 230,000 miles old. My plan for this winter is to go ahead and swap in the SI trans then take all of the stuff I need off of the 1.6 to do the MPFI swap. putting a header, exhaust and intake on my engine and then I have a buddy that has a wide band and can chip my ecu for me to tune it in right. That should probably eat all of that money right up. Does anyone have any better ways they would spend that money on the car? Thanks again for all of your insight it is great to talk to people that actually do race the same car rather than people who arnt familiar with it at all.