White Lightnin

Ok...well I did a valve adjustment. It was a little tougher than I thought. I ended up breaking a valve cover stud but its fixed now. The only thing is I dont get that nice sound of what I thought was the secondaries opening between 4-5k rpm. I only get what i think is vtec hitting around 5500. It is totally different than before the adjustment. Once the vtec kicks it hauls but before that it is sleepier than I remember. Am I mixing up vterc and the secondaries. Also every time I turn on the car the check engine light goes for a second then turns off. Shouldnt it stay on all the time if it is storing a code? I jumped the computer and no codes just a constant cel, no flashing. Do you have to run wires for the secondaries? This guy I met thought you had to, but I hadno problems before. Whats the deal guys?

BTW 92cx w/ 95 b18c1

LXguy

Hello:

Don't know what the problem you are having is, but:

You do have to run wires to the secondaries. On the '95 Teg harness there is an extra connector on the passenger side. This runs the evaporative emissions on the integra. The wiring that runs the evap on the civic (in my case anyways) plugs intot the wires that run the secondaries on the integra harness. Unless you wired this up, I can't imagine that your secondaries are opening properly.

The wires that run the secondaries are on the driver side harness. There is a connector under the intake manifold.

Hope I haven't confused you worse. Get a Helms manual. It tells you where everyting is.

Good Luck

Steve

White Lightnin

i think I may have mixed up the vtec and the secondaries. When does each kick in? Either way i am redoing some wiring next weekend. Bout time I sodered that stuff.

HKxBlur

VTEC kicks in at 4400rpms and the secondaries open at 5800/6000.. There's ways to test to see what's working and what's not.. I suggest u get a Helm's manual and a $20-30 multimeter.. Alot of problems can be solved with these must-have items.. As for your problems, i doubt anything has changed since your adjustment..

The secondaries are wired to your IAB (intake air bypass) solenoid, a 2-wire connector (red/green on mine) that's located driver's side, under the intake manifold, right in the middle..

If u feel the power or sound of 'vtec' up there at 6000 rpms, that's the secondaries so u shouldn't even check it out.. As for VTEC, make sure your car is warmed up and your water temps are above the "C" before u try to go into vtec because u wont have any.. hope this helps, post up if u have more ?s..


[Modified by HKxBlur, 9:13 AM 2/12/2002]

B18C5-EH2

Yes, the VTEC on the GS-R motor kicks in around 4400 rpms, so again I'll echo that it's the VTEC, not the butterflys.

Do you have any check engine lights?

There are many factors that keep VTEC from coming on, like HxBlur said the temp. Also, the Vehicle Speed Sensor, VTEC oil pressure sensor, VTEC solenoid, and others can keep VTEC off as well if they are not wired or they are defective.

Any check engines?

peebrain

unscrew the butterfly plates on the secondarys, but leave the little bar in...cheap upgrade for a budget

HKxBlur

I'm sure I could get hundreds of people that would agree that this isn't an 'upgrade'.. You will gain a few more cfm, less than 10 after 6000rpms and lose fat power down low.. Obviously u haven't done this mod to your street car or u wouldn't be recommending it..

I ran without my 'butterflies' for about a month after my swap (no IAB sensor so they're always opened) and it just plain fkn sucked.. Of course, I didn't realize it until I hooked it up and found like 100hp increase at 3k-5k.. Please don't recommend this to anyone else and waste their time..


[Modified by HKxBlur, 9:38 AM 2/14/2002]

B18C5-EH2

I agree. Unless you bought a Skunk2 manifold and have the prper ECU program to run the car, the secondary butterfly manifold is great for the street.

A lot of people just spead the word that the secondary butterfly mechanism sucks, but don't you think that Honda spent lots of time and money engineering the system?

If it sucks so bad, then why are the GS-Rs, Preludes, Accords, etc. all fitted with secondary butterfly systems on the motors? The butterfly manifold increases grunt down low and then switches to increase hp on the higher RPM range.

True the Type R style manifolds are better for peak and high RPM horsepower, but simply taking out the butterflies on the GS-R manifold is not anything like having a true Type R style manifold.


[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 10:56 AM 2/14/2002]

peebrain

if everyone is so worried about reliability in a street car, you shouldnt be touching your motors...the car will run and when you race you arent even in low rpm...lighten up pal, ive been in this game for years and i know what works, i may play the fool on this board but its for a reason....
if you dont like my butterfly idea then dont use it plain and simple.
and to set the record straight, the only reason they added secondaries is to pull those heavey cars around...i wont deny that a skunk2 manifold will blow this "stupid idea" out of the water, but for budget racers who cares....but for sure no harm no foul, i just dont appreciate people judging me and not one of you knows me.
peace

B18C5-EH2

Hey Natural Disaster, did I ever attack you or say you have not been "in this game" long enough? Did I "judge" you like you said? NO.

The idea of taking out the secondaries will kill the low end grunt - the guy here in question *probably* isn't just a hard core drag racer, so taking the butterfly out isn't the best idea for a STREET car.

Also, did I say that the reliability would be compromised? No, and it won't, but I'll say it again that the low end will suffer, and low end is important if you ever drive the car below 4500 RPMs, which you do on a STREET car. In a perfect drag racing world where you have slicks and launch well above the 4500 RPM range, sure taking out the butterflies might help.

You can chill out with the "I've been doing this for years" stuff too - you're trying to make this into a competition, and if we're going to compare dick sizes I'd rather leave this thread. We're all here to learn and share info, so let's just do that.

peebrain

sick

twocamsandavtec

Hey in case you haven't run the wires for the secondaries, you can do it without running new wires. The way I did it was by moving 1 wire on the ecu plug,provided of course you have the GSR ecu. The wire is in the A plug of the ecu which is the biggest plug of all 3. The wire number is A 20 and it needs to move to A 17. If you're looking into the ecu where the A plug goes the top row of pins from left to right are the odd numbers 1,3,5,7and so on up to 25. The bottom are even from 2 to 26. So if you look into the back of the plug count the BOTTOM row of wires from RIGHT TO LEFT the fouth wire is A 20 should be red wire. Then from RIGHT TO LEFT on the TOP row of wires after you get to the 4th wire the fifth hole will be empty that's A 17 unless your car was originally automatic.OK removing A 20: You will need a small pin or safety pin. First open the back little flaps of the connector top and bottom. Then if you look into the connector (the side that the pin goes into)you'll see a little square hole and above it a T shaped hole,the T shaped hole is where you release the wire,this is where the small pin comes in. Slide the pin in from the bottom of the T and gently pry up. You'll have to hold it and slide the wire out if the wire doesn't slide out easy DON'T pull it. If you got the pin in right to release it should slide out easily. Once it's out put it in A 17 it should click in, give it a very light tug to make sure it's in place. Once you plug it all back in, you can see if it's working. Warm up the engine go under the hood and crack the throttle to about 6k the vaccum diaphragm on the side of the intake near the master cylinder should move to open secondaries.

HKxBlur

the whole was well-said.. there was NO bad intentions on my part, just giving my two cents.. I drive a Honda DX, that should tell u about my **** size..

The secondaries were adopted to all high-end models because it's a better system.. 'How come the ITR didn't come with one?' you asked? Translated from Japanese, the engineers just 'wanted to keep it simple'..

My daily-driven (no feat on a Honda) full-interior front-license-plate hatchback runs low-12s with a stock stock stock GSR motor/head.. I still have my secondaries in for the reasons I posted above and until I get off my *** and install my modded p28 and skunk2 mani (and teg brakes, rotors, bushings, swaybars, flywheel ).. just got home from yanking Immortal's motor and now I'll have a little more time to dedicate to the 'little hatchy that could'.. good luck bro..